Higher Power Stuff ft. Kristen

Steve welcomes back Kristen to discuss navigating their relationship with their Higher Power through their step work and in their lives today.

Topics discussed include:

• Grasping a Higher Power as queer individuals
• Our experiences going through the first few steps
• Living in the 11th Step
• Explaining Higher Power 'stuff' to people not in recovery
• And much more!

Follow us online at @gayapodcast. Head over to the Patreon page to hear Kristen and Steve spin the Topic Wheel!

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Transcript

Steve: 0:55

Hi everyone, and welcome to Gay A, a podcast about sobriety for the LGBT plus community and our allies. I'm your host, Steve Benner Martin, I'm an alcoholic and an addict, and I am grateful for all the support my friends have been showing me recently with my new adventures. As of this recording, I am 887 days sober, and today we're welcoming back my sober sibling, Kristen, to discuss improving our conscious contact with our higher powers. That either sounds like fun times or a nightmare of an episode, but I promise it'll be fun. Welcome back, Kristen. Thank you. Thanks

Kristen: 1:26

for having me back. Steve.

Steve: 1:28

Yes. I am so glad to have you on as one of my regulars, but what's been new since our last episode, probably about three to four months ago?

Kristen: 1:36

Well, good things and also hard things. So But I'll start with good things. I'm back to work. There was a strike that affected me and I'm working again. I don't know. We turned into fall in the city and I'm into that. I don't know. I've gotten in a lot of good. time with my nieces. So yeah some good stuff.

Steve: 1:54

Excellent. And why the topic of step 11 or talking about higher power stuff?

Kristen: 2:01

Well, I actually thought until you sent me the outline, we were going to do traditional 11. And it was because I had to do a qualification today at a different meeting in person about traditional 11. So I was like, why not? You know, knock two of them out with one set of like thinking, but then when we did step 11, I was like, great, because I said everything I have to say about traditional and I won't talk about it anymore. So serendipity is the answer. We just are lucky to be able to talk about it. And I mean, I love, I love step 11. I'm excited

Steve: 2:32

to talk about it. Excellent. Yeah. And I learned recently because I've been studying the traditions with my, my sponsor that like, there's like a parallel between the steps and the traditions, like the number to number. At least on like the, the take the 12 or whatever, that's been cool to read. So funny the way that that works out. So what was your relationship with a higher power like before entering recovery?

Kristen: 2:52

Yeah, I mean, pretty minimal. Although I had my moments, I, so I was raised Unitarian, which is for those who don't know, a very, very liberal technically Christian, like Protestant religion, but really we did not. have any kind of like Christianity in it. It was very much like the spirit of that religion was love your neighbor, be a good person, you know, take care of the environment was a big thing. So that was the church I grew up in. Very loose, very warm, very queer friendly, I should say. Like I, some of my earliest memories of church was there actually was like kind of a, a Debate between the older people and the younger people about whether they should ordain, you know, a lesbian minister. And I think the minister didn't go through, but there was just sort of a collective sense that those old people were about to die off and, like, the church wanted. It was like a very, it felt to me very welcoming and warm in that way. And like, I prayed when I was little, like, my parents taught me, like, little prayers to say before bed. And I would add on wishes to the end, like, and please help me be a girl and please make me win my soccer game and make my sister stop being so mean. So that was it when I was little. And then, I mean, I could go off on a whole qualification, but that after that, there was like moments where, like, I meditated and I felt connected to something or I went. On a retreat once where part of it, we're supposed to go out and like, you know, connect with something bigger than ourselves. So like, I had those moments, but I certainly, I both neither really had a strong relationship with a higher power and I didn't have like, some people come in with like religious trauma. I didn't have that either. It was just pretty like, oh, huh. Interesting.

Steve: 4:39

Yeah. And I, it's great that like you at least felt accepted because I hear so many people who do talk about that religious trauma. I don't know whether I would say that I, my religious experiences were traumatic as much as I mean, I went to Catholic school and there was a lot of things going on. Like I was in the time where priests were dropping like flies and it was happening close to home as well as in national news. And you know, there was hypocrisy and like, but like, I remember like getting all A's in religion. Yeah. And still being told, like, no, but you're gay, so, like, none of it matters. Like, like, you could get straight A's and unless you become a priest and the only thing you ever have sex with is your left hand, like, you can't do this. And so, I left that and didn't really think twice about it after I was done. Graduating high school and like getting in my A's in religion, but I would say it's interesting that you talked about that experience of like connecting with something else afterwards, because I think that I might have had those experiences during meditation or during just like moments of peace or serenity. And I wouldn't even have been able to think that that was God or my higher power, because at the time I was like, no, like. God doesn't want me or I don't want God or I wasn't sure where that disconnect was from the Catholic God But I was like the Catholic God wouldn't be showing up to me and like my little hippie meditations Right and learning that it was possible. It was cool.

Kristen: 6:03

Yeah, I always fell and I feel very lucky for this I went back and forth on if I even believed in my God or not. But when I did, I was always like, anyone who says it's about hate is wrong. Like, I just like baffled that anyone could be so stupid as to think like they were right about God wanting gay people to be in trouble or like anti abortion or anything. Like, I was just like, you're clearly wrong. I don't know where that arrogance came from, but I always carried it with me. I mean,

Steve: 6:28

that's, that's good to have

Kristen: 6:29

though. Yeah, it was very, it was very protective, so.

Steve: 6:33

Yeah, and I know that when I entered into the rooms, well, before I entered into the rooms, I was very convinced that it was a religious organization, like our 12 step program. And even when they were talking about all the steps and the word God, and it just scared me away that first time when I got my DUI in college. I wasn't ready yet. I hadn't gone through enough to be ready to admit that I was an alcoholic. I was an alcoholic at that time. Now in hindsight I see that. But at that time, I heard it involved having a relationship with God and doing personal work and both the things were not what I was about at that time. I thought that they were going to help me cheat so I didn't get caught next time. So, you know, what was your experience like when you first encountered the runes and what your perception of higher power meant?

Kristen: 7:17

It's really interesting. I, to me I, so I went to Al Anon before I went to AA is one thing. And I guess, and I'm trying to think about, like, I got 12 stepped into that room. So, like, the person that bought me was a person that I, like, trusted. To not be putting me in a cult, you know, it's like, yeah, I guess that was part of it. But it still seems to me that I should have been shocked by how much traditional God language, and especially like God referred to as he, like, I, it doesn't seem in retrospect, remembering like the way I that I wouldn't have been like, sure, fine. But I was maybe part of it was the Al Anon sponsor that I had. Was very like dogmatically, like I am a scientist. I only believe in what I can, like, she actually was more agnostic, skeptical than I would've even said. And I think it is just kind of my, like I said, like I just have a kind of arrogance and I'm like, I'll just define this however I want. And I did and I trusted'em when they said that I could, which was nice. There was a, I remember doing something that was really. My Al Anon experience that first time through was a little bit, you know, it was mixed, but the thing they did that was really powerful for me is, I think it was on step two, I went through and I made a notebook and I took out, like, I looked for, like, poems and, like, prayers from different traditions and, like, quotes, like, just, like, anything that made Sense to me of people talking about God or higher power that I thought was like beautiful and I because I do also think I think I guess a way that I connected with it too. There's always thought like, most of the like, prior to now, most of the writers that I love believe were religious to believe that God was philosophers. So, like, whatever it is, like, it's not just that, like, I'm too smart for it. Do you know what I mean? And I tried to go back and like find some of that and that was a good way in for me, but there still was a huge gap between that and like, God could do anything for me. Do you know what I mean? Or like the actual practice of it. I had no clue, but that being willing to like define it myself and be like, okay, sure that I didn't

Steve: 9:31

have. Yeah, I mean, defining it was really, really cool. I know though that it feels like the moment that you're like, okay, I believe in this power. Then all of a sudden you're told to turn your will and your lives over to its care. I mean, what was that process like for you? Because I mean, that, that is, I think what you know, a lot of people that I've talked with and worked with, like struggle with is that they finally get their mind around the concept and now they're like, okay, and I give myself up to you. Right. I

Kristen: 9:59

mean, I think the way that I ease my way into it. And I don't think I ever really took step 3 in when I did Al Anon, like, I think that didn't happen until I came into, I don't even know where to stop. But like, I guess the point is, I was just like, yes, there's this beautiful idea of like, the universe and it's all connected. It's so lovely. And here are all these palms and like, I'm going to do like, obviously can't do anything. It can't like, I don't know, I, I, I just didn't believe, and I thought it was almost wrong. That is where I did get into, like, really old beliefs. It was like wrong to turn your will over to something like, then you were like one of those people who was like, Jesus takes the wheel and then like didn't do their basic human responsibilities. You know what I mean? Like Yeah. And so, so I did it, I would say in Al-Anon. And then in AA though, when I came in, I think the thing that happened was that my life had imploded so much that it just knocked me off my like. Thrown at the center of the universe, but I thought like, what I understood when I came into AI was that I could not run my life anymore. That was my higher power moment and like the experience that got me in. And so then there was just like, desperation of. I can't do this. Somebody else has got to step in and I still don't believe while I'm like praying and stuff that like anything is going to happen. It's only in retrospect where I'm like, Oh, it seems like this was taken care of. It seemed like doing all of these things that seemed very obvious to me weren't going to work. And I was just going through the motions like are changing my life. But not in the way that I

Steve: 11:45

I agree. I know that it was freeing turning my will over as much as it was scary. Like once you're done with it, you're like, ah, like I'm not the one in control like anymore. Like it's not, I don't have to play God. And I, I didn't realize how much I was trying to play God in my life. That it was freeing not having to play that God anymore. And if someone around me. You know, being an unfortunate asshat of a person. I'm like, I can't control that. I just have to accept it and it's been so helpful. But then, you know, we go through in this program of ours, or the different programs, a whole bunch of personal work and near the end, we're encouraged to seek through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with our higher power. Praying only for the knowledge of their will for us and the power to carry that out. Now, how would you even try and explain what that means to someone who's not working the steps? What is step 11?

Kristen: 12:36

Yeah. I wouldn't try to explain it really because I feel like they come in order and like you can't really, if you don't have a higher power and you haven't like had what other experience that requires to convince you that a right life run on self will will not be a success. Like then there's no point, but like, I guess what I would say is a very basic pray and meditate stuff. Do you know what I mean? Like actually it's very practical in a way that like you said, yeah, in step three, like how do I even do that? I don't know. But. Step 11, it's just. Pray and meditate. Pray and meditate. Which I do.

Steve: 13:10

So. Yeah, and what did those practices look like for you? Cause like I always thought of, like growing up at least, I was taught that praying involves sitting on your knees in a church on a pew. And I always thought that meditation involved paying 60 to go to a class where someone in flip flops and bad hygiene, like walks you through different poses you can't do. Like. Which is also yoga, I'm realizing now, but like, I mean, I've learned both of those things are in true and all of it is beautiful, but like, yeah, what was that, what is it like to you?

Kristen: 13:40

Yeah. I mean, I guess I'll start with meditation. Cause I feel like that's the thing, frankly, I was more familiar with, you know I used to meditate. I didn't go to a class usually, and I didn't put on flip flops, but like in the way that you do, you know, I have a cushion and I would sit there for 10 or 15 or before, like I got up to 20 minutes. I would read books on meditation, I'd read about Buddhism, and then it's just like you're just sitting there, and you're concentrating on your breath, and you're trying to still your mind, and it's really hard. That was my impression of meditation before I came in, and honestly, it's not that different now. But I try to do it, I wrestle with it, I'm interested in it, I want to do it, I've had, the last couple days actually, I remember the curiosity that I had about meditation before I came in that was about a little more like rooted in a Buddhist tradition and was about like impermanence and all that stuff. And I was like, they used to really care about that. I would like to get back into it again. And build out my meditation sort of with some of that richness, because honestly, up until a couple of days ago, meditation was like, for 5 to 10 minutes, you know, in regularly, you know, over the last couple of like, it just, I wasn't really doing it. I would do some, like, I had, like, guided meditations and some, like, a problem in meditation is you like. If you're not paying attention, you like leave your body and go up into your head and you're just like spinning out and thinking and it's worse when you end it again. So I did have like a tapping app that was like, showed you how to like tap on your pressure points and like, and it calmed me down. But like, was it meditation the way that like the 12 steps? I don't think it was. It was just like another like self care practice. So I'm trying to do a little more. I would like to do more meditation. I've heard someone say that like praying is talking to God and meditation is listening. And so I feel like getting quiet and sort of listening and paying attention to what's going on. I do try to do that and I do try to do that every day. And it's just ways of, of doing that. And then prayer, that's kind of like the one I think is so interesting because it's like, yeah, I said I said prayers when I was little, but I would never think of myself as a praying person. And now I pray all the time. I like. Can't stop, won't stop with prayer. I love it. And it's like, I have a couple prayers, like I say the third step prayer every day. I say for a long time, or for a while, the last couple months, I was really spinning out and there was like, I felt And there's a lot of stuff I couldn't figure out and I started saying the set aside prayer which maybe you know, but is there's longer version of it. I shortened it because I couldn't remember it. So it's, so what I was saying was like, God, please help me set aside everything I think I know about you, myself and other people so that I may have a, an open mind and a new experience of life. Please help me see the truth. And I would say that every time I got upset. And it really changed something, like, it really, really helped. But I also just try, like, the last thing I'll say about prayer, and I've been talking a lot, is like, you're praying if you're thinking at God, do you know what I mean? Like it, and so, like, I have an inner monologue that's always running, do you know what I mean? That's always ranting, that's always upset, that's always worried, and so now I try to do it, and I notice that, it's like, you can keep doing that, just like, Just it's like literally just to change the intonation, right? You're like, God, I wish to the stupid guy in front of this. And you're like, God, I wish the stupid guy, you know, that's a prayer. Like, so you can just do that. And it helps and it helps get a little bit of distance between. What's happening in your head? Do you know what I mean? And, and, and what's happening in the world? Oh yeah. What about you? Right? I,

Steve: 17:25

well, I, I love that you say like that praying is talking and like meditating is listening because I was like no wonder I am naturally better at praying because I've gotten, I've learned active listening and all of that and like the program and like different personal work but like Yeah, my natural thing is just to talk, talk, talk. So I know that my favorite time to pray and like my husband doesn't get it because he's not in the program, but like it's in the car. Like I might drive home from work, like and my drive into work, like I might drive into work is basically like praying that like all of the strength to get through the day that like I won't let the bullshit around me get to me that like. I'll keep in mind, like, what's important for me, and what matters, and what I can and can't control, and like, my drive home is like, kind of praying, and like, letting go of resentments from the day, and like, What could I do better? Like what am I not going to take with me? And what will I take with me? And so, yeah, that's kind of where I do most of my praying. And then I learn that I do better in meditation classes and groups rather than on my own because when I'm on my own it turns into nap time. No matter. How well rested I am in advance give me, like, even the talking ones, like, I'll listen for a little bit and then I'm just out, so I need to be around other people where I know that I'm being watched.

Kristen: 18:40

Do you, when you're praying in the car, is it out loud? Do you use your, like, mouth, or is it just your

Steve: 18:44

thinking? It's mostly, like, thinking, but there are, like, times when, like, I'm sure if you were recording the audio in the car, you'd hear me like muttering under my breath, talking to myself like a crazy person. Like, I'm sure that some of the words come out, but like maybe every third word, so you, my dog really thinks I'm nuts.

Kristen: 19:00

Yeah, that's amazing. That's

Steve: 19:05

what we do. And what would you say are ways that you are working on improving your prayer or your meditation routines?

Kristen: 19:13

I mean, one is, well, so I'm actually working the steps in another program now. I mean, whatever I can say, it's like, this is one of those, it's an open 12 steps. So I'm doing Allen on again, like I'm going back to it and doing it. I'm working, working the steps and we're going really slow. And so one of the things my sponsor is really on me is like. But in a gentle L and L is like, pause, slow down, like, say a prayer. So it's just like, to me, so much of it is just doing everything more slowly than is my instinct. And that includes saying, so that adding those prayers every morning, my sponsor has really been like, you should be saying a prayer before you open your eyes. And I have not been able to do that yet, honestly, like sometimes I can do it when I get out of bed. Sometimes I have to have like one cup of coffee. I usually wake up in a pretty group. So I'm trying to do that. And then, yeah, I mean, I don't know that it will work or not. But thinking about trying to make, to get serious about meditation and the practice of it. Like I said, I I love reading about it. I love knowing about it. I love hearing what's going on. I thought about going to a meditation center. And like, I think that would be nice, and I think it would be nice to have something that's like, a little separate from AA, you know, like, where it feeds AA, but maybe it's like, in a different tradition, or like, I'm meeting other people who aren't in AA, and just like, making a little rich. I'm like new, making it feel new so that I'm like excited to do it

Steve: 20:48

and I'll send you the information next time Steven does one of his full moon ceremony because we do them on zoom, but I love, I love like those medic meditations. So I think my goal is to try and learn how to meditate on my own without falling asleep. Yeah. I'll have to think about the whole praying before your eyes open thing because I don't think my brain really like boots up until. I've been like awake and moving for about half an hour. No, it's

Kristen: 21:12

really interesting and like, you know, I wake up like, what are the things you're thinking about when you wake up? Like mine are not things I'm proud of. Like they're always obsessions. Do you know what I mean? And so it's like, I kind of, or I have to like think about something I really want so that I'll be motivated to get out of bed. Do you know what I mean? But it's like, I just feel like my brain is kind of... Mucky in the mornings. And it is. Yeah. It's like, how soon can you get off that one mental trap and into a different one? So,

Steve: 21:40

yeah, I don't know whether I call it Mucky. I feel like it's like the computers from the 80s where when you push the power button, it just takes a couple of minutes for it to fully boot up where like, it's not that I'm having bad thoughts. It's that my thought process is like, Open eyes,

Kristen: 21:57

feet on ground, and then, yeah.

Steve: 22:01

Excellent. And what's something that you're looking forward to either in your personal life or in your recovery?

Kristen: 22:07

Oh my God, I just bought plane tickets to go to Japan with my brother.

Steve: 22:12

That's on my bucket list.

Kristen: 22:14

Me too. I like it. The timing is ridiculous. I don't, it's not financially the wisest thing I've ever done, but he was going and I've always wanted to go. And so I was just like, look, Kristen, like it's never going to be the perfect time. I'm so nervous about it. I'm like, Oh, I have like a 12 million ideas about how it can go wrong, but I'm also really excited.

Steve: 22:37

I am so excited for you. Are you going when the cherry blossoms are gonna be blooming? No,

Kristen: 22:41

we're gonna go a little before then. It's like the prices just skyrocket once they're out. Yeah, I can imagine. So yeah, that's

Steve: 22:46

my dream That would be cool. But yes,

Kristen: 22:48

I'll, maybe I'll just cancel my return flight home and stay there for another several months and see them.

Steve: 22:53

Oh my goodness. That sounds the dream. Just don't stay in the ring house.

Kristen: 22:59

I mean, maybe I would actually, I don't know, I'm pretty into horror, as

Steve: 23:03

you know. All right. Well, thank you so much, Kristen. We could chat all day, but I think that's our episode. Yeah. Thank you. And thank you, listeners, for tuning in to another episode of Gay A Podcast. Make sure you follow us on the socials at Gay A Podcast and follow us where you're listening right now so you can get these new episodes every Thursday. And until next time, stay sober, friends.