Steve welcomes Mark back to celebrate 18 years of recovery while chatting about overcoming negative thoughts and actions many of us refer to as 'stinking thinking!'
Topics discussed include:
Follow Mark @heymarko8 on IG, and follow us too @gayapodcast. Head over to the Patreon page to hear Mark and Steve talk about what life was like in our 20s!
Listeners, I NEED YOUR HELP! This podcast is growing rapidly, and I want to make sure we can all grow together, so take this survey and let me know what I'm doing right and where I should focus my attentions going forward to provide the best podcast for YOU possible! CLICK HERE!
Steve welcomes Mark back to celebrate 18 years of recovery while chatting about overcoming negative thoughts and actions many of us refer to as 'stinking thinking!'
Topics discussed include:
Follow Mark @heymarko8 on IG, and follow us too @gayapodcast. Head over to the Patreon page to hear Mark and Steve talk about what life was like in our 20s!
Listeners, I NEED YOUR HELP! This podcast is growing rapidly, and I want to make sure we can all grow together, so take this survey and let me know what I'm doing right and where I should focus my attentions going forward to provide the best podcast for YOU possible! CLICK HERE!
Hi everyone, and welcome to Gay A, a podcast about sobriety for the queer community and our allies. I'm your host, Steve Bennet-Martin, I'm an alcoholic and addict, and I'm grateful for getting into a fitness routine again. As of this recording, I am 914 days sober. And today we're welcoming back a friend of the podcast, Mark. Welcome back, Mark.
Mark:Hey, Steve. Hi, everybody. Thanks for having me back.
Steve:Yes. And I fondly remember all your episodes like they were just yesterday. So I was blown away when I realized that you haven't been on since February. What's been new?
Mark:Well, I just recently celebrated 18 years of continuous sobriety, which is Quite a miracle, right? I came to the rooms to get my family off my back and here I am 18 years later. You know, it's been a rough month. 1 of my best friends passed away a couple of weeks ago after a very brief illness. My mother got coded at 90 after we kept her safe for 3 years. and just life, right? So you know, I would say big picture life is beautiful and wonderful and amazing and gay as fuck. But the last couple of weeks have been really trying.
Steve:Before we dive into those, that trying couple of weeks speaking of gay as fuck, what's your favorite part of being queer today?
Mark:I have been on this journey as I think we talked about in my last February episode of like, now that I don't work for Catholic education anymore, just really pushing my boundaries of what I perceive as my true gay identity, right? Like trying on different things, whether it's, going to different places or hanging out with different kinds of people or embracing clothing styles that maybe I was like, oh, somebody might think something weird about this and just fucking owning it. if I want to put on a pair of, high heeled boots and rock an outfit with those on. Like that's what I'm doing.
Steve:Yeah. Well, I've seen you rocking them out on social media and that's facts. You do rock them. And what's your favorite part of being sober
Mark:today? I think my favorite part of being sober today is just. This constant celebration of other people's successes that becomes part of that journey, right? We're all trudging on the same path, and it's just amazing to watch people grow. And I think that's such a gift. And to just be present for that.
Steve:Being present and the growth is certainly a beautiful thing to see in others. Oftentimes, it's I find it's easier to see it in others than it is to see in ourselves as we go through the journey.
Mark:Right. Yeah.
Steve:For sure. Yeah. And you mentioned it's been a trying couple weeks or months but getting into that, how does that affect you and your behaviors and your mindset when things that are going on in your personal life that are hard?
Mark:Well, you know, I'm an addict, so I will treat loneliness with isolation. I will treat fear of financial insecurity with giant shopping sprees. We could probably do a whole episode on how I panic buy, right? Because I'm literally in like, oh my God, oh my God. And then I'm like, well, I just paid that credit card off. Yeah. So, that's a cycle, right? And that's one of those things where, I finally had this aha moment over the summer when I did that again, that I'm like, oh, fuck. I always say when I share that fantasy was 1 of my 1st addictions, right? Like, I was addicted to, like, living in a fantasy world and being creative. And I think the 2nd 1 was probably compulsivity, right? Like, I'm dating myself here, but you used to get, like, Stamps that you could get on approval, you'd order from the back of a magazine if you collected stamps and my mother would be like, you can pick 3 packets out of this envelope. And then when I figured out where she kept the envelope until she mailed it back with the payment, I would go in and like, take more. Right so, like, I have this disease of more, but oftentimes, if there isn't an outward action, it becomes the thought patterns. Right? And. They talk about in the rooms that your relapse begins long before you actually pick up the drug. Right? So my 1st year. Very, very religiously dedicated to going to meetings. Year 2, I started to drift a little bit, right? I was like, oh, those people didn't like me at those gay meetings. Anyway, I didn't really fit in there. Nobody called me, and I just drifted into my suburban. Meetings with, the housewives and the truckers and whatnot. And then, I was like, I'm fine. And I stopped going to those. And 1 of the most interesting things was. I used to call my inpatient counselor once a year on my anniversary and be like, yeah, I did it another year. And 1 year, I was like, I think I need therapy and I just, like, when on this, like, rant. And she was like, hold on a minute. When's the last time you went to a meeting? And that was it. Right? When I don't take care of myself, 1 of the 1st things for me to go is my thinking. Right? And. It was sort of later in sobriety when I finally, went back to cause my main program is crystal meth anonymous. When I went back to meetings in New York and found my people and found my tribe, and really started, doing service and getting involved and taking on sponsees, and I was in the process of finishing my last couple of steps that I had a sponsor. Make me read from the big book. More about alcoholism and that 1st paragraph talks about how we wished we could drink like normal people and our entire drinking career. We just and on and on and it uses drink and drinking multiple ways to explain that. Like, drinking is a problem. And he's like, great. Now I want you to go back. He goes, and I want you to reread the whole thing. And wherever it says drink, you say, think and wherever it says. Drinking you say thinking and I'm like my entire thinking career. I wished I could think like a normal person and, you know, and all of a sudden you're like, oh, fuck, you know, it's 1 of those moments where you're like, oh, right. I have wires that are mismatched up here and, in those times of crisis, even at 18 years, my 1st thought isn't only the right thought, I don't always go straight to the solution. I often find several avenues of creating new problems or. Just letting my wheels spin completely out of control, right? Making up all sorts of, catastrophes in my head that are going to happen or, if somebody doesn't want to talk to you, all of this crazy stuff, right? That you can imagine in your head, and. Sometimes it's acting out, right? we kind of texted back and forth about this where, people will go down a rabbit hole of sex, right? Acting out sexually seeking attention. Some way, right? Whether it's through social media posts or just trolling on apps, right? Like, with no intention to hook up. Not that I know anything about this
Steve:never
Mark:and then you're like, all right, I'm done. I got the validation. I need it. I don't care about that guy with blue balls. I'm good, and 1 of them for me is like spending, and that's dangerous because it unleashes something else. Right? And then I have to go, do I need another program? Or am I just not applying the program? I already work to all of my affairs.
Steve:Yeah, I, and I can relate to that so much because I know that the thinking is broken to begin with because I know that I'm addicted and I know one of the ways that I act out might be buying things that I don't need, but Even though I know it, it's that built in forgetter that we have that they say in the rooms, we're like, I'll forget that and I won't realize it until there's one too many packages arriving on a daily basis. I have to catch the behaviors and like constantly be aware of what it is that I'm doing and why I'm doing it. Because if I'm just kind of on autopilot, my brain automatically drives me off course, off
Mark:the right, right. A hundred percent, you know, like, I will give you a very embarrassing and real example this summer. Like I paid two credit cards off and one of them immediately cut my. Credit limit in half like as a punishment and I was like, what are you doing? I just paid you off so I took the other card and charged it right back up by You know going down an eBay rabbit hole, which was a thing when I was a tweaker So, funny story, one winter when I was tweaking, I discovered that eBay sold all of the ornaments from the, like,,Claymation series, Christmas series, like Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, Year Without a Santa Claus, and I had missed all of these because I was busy. Doing drugs. So it became this obsession. So now I have all of the ornaments, all of the, like, beanie babies, all of the this, all of the that, right? Like, I did that high. Yeah. Well, this summer, I did the same thing, investing in, like, accessories. You know, like I needed more brooches or I needed, you know, like pendant necklaces to like broaden my collection. Because, you know, like I'm embracing that queer kid who wanted to wear dangly earrings and everybody was like, no, you can't do that. And like, it was like, I'll show you credit card company. And who did I show? Cause like.
Steve:Yeah, I'm sure the credit card company is very upset right now over
Mark:all of this. They're so upset that I have had no control, right? buT I have to be aware that somewhere in there was a trigger and that it allowed me to continue chasing something that I thought was making me feel good in the moment. And then I have to be like, okay, so what was I not doing to take care of myself, to take care of my mental and spiritual conditions, right? That I was filling the God shaped hole with some really fabulous. Items like, this great collection of, really awesome accessories now. Like, when I want to put together an outfit. I was gonna
Steve:say, not all of this sounds horrible, but I understand the moral of the story is that you don't want to, replace
Mark:the godship. Right? The moral of the story is, but now I'm also carrying that debt again into this year, when I had a goal set to sort of be at least halfway paid off, right? So, for me, that kind of thinking,is just as dangerous
Steve:as a relapse. Yeah, and when you identify it, you mentioned typically it's about looking back to see like what you were doing that like because or instead of, what are those things that are normally missing in your life or in your, your program when you will start acting out?
Mark:Maybe I'm not talking to my own sponsor or actively working on a step. Maybe I'm not connected to my own sponsees. Sometimes it's just stress. Like general stress, like over the summer, I was like, pissy because I was trying to find a new job. Like, I did not want to go back to the school that I've, I've been working at and like, was like, piss that, like, I kept getting these interviews and then they. Would drop. And then like, I would get this other interview and they would be like, we're going to move you on to the final. Less to the final phase. And then you get an email two days later that says, we're really sorry, but we decided to move to other people, to the final phase and like, instead of fixing my mindset to be like, what can I do to go back to work with the right attitude? Which is what I eventually did. Right. But. It took me a while to get there and I spent like the whole month of July recklessly spending and wasting time and feeling sorry for myself instead of like making sure that I was like nourishing my soul, right? You know, by being at meetings and being at fellowship and, and just being immersed in my program, right? Like I was actively choosing to do the opposite. Of what I know deep in my bones, like, helps me, right? And, like, my friend who passed away made a choice to go off of, like, their mental health medication. Which then led them to, like, be like, ah, fuck it, I can go off of all of my other medications, too. And then, by the time they realized, oh, shit, this could be a problem, they were sick. And it was too late, you know? And, there's so much of that that just... it's been really difficult because like you stand there and you're like, why didn't you let me help you? Why didn't you tell me something was wrong? And then I have to hold up the mirror and be like, well, I didn't tell anybody something was wrong over the summer. And, I racked up all this, this debt or, or whatever it is that we, we put on instead of putting on our sobriety. Right. There's a lot of things I've seen people use instead of drugs or alcohol. And it's really hard to stop that once
Steve:it starts. Yeah, I've. Got back into vaping after getting sober because there was like a year and I was like I'm either gonna vape or I might pick up and I knew I didn't want to pick up so like I started vaping and now I'm like weaning down from six milligrams and I'm all the way down to 1. 5 and should be done by the end of the week so I plan on being nicotine free but again it was one of those things where when I picked it up I knew it was a bad behavior and it's not like I thought that I would Manage it I know I'm addicted and the moment that that nicotine hits my system, I was addicted again, like
Mark:immediately. Right. And I think something that's really important, like I talk about my tribe, right? if you also find yourself isolating from the people who are probably going to tell you that you're doing something destructive, that might be a sign that you should get reconnected, I have the, both wonderful and odious task in my group of friends that I'm the last person anybody wants to talk to when they're like, in the middle of making really bad decisions, because I'm probably going to be like, oh, you're finally ready to hear the fucking truth. Yeah. Cool. But I also find that because that's my role, very frequently people are like, Oh, he's fine. Right? And. I certainly am not about to like pull my pants down and be like, look at all this stupid shit. I just did right. But once I catch myself, then I find like, I, I had my 2 best friends here and was like, I need you to know that like, this is something I've done. It's bad. I feel awful about it. I feel a lot of shame around, like, working really hard to like, pay these off. And then, like, reentering this cycle, right? So, like, I went to a couple of debtors anonymous meetings. I sat with my sponsor and talked about, like, is that something I need to pursue or, like, can I do this by just reengaging in my own program and applying those principles to what I'm doing? Because I'm basically. Repeating a cycle of self harm, very similar to drugs and alcohol that is literally caused by the way that I'm thinking about things right? And it's been so much better just knowing that I have admitted to people that I have a problem, right? I have stopped doing the thing that's harming me, right? Like, just don't pick up no matter what. So it's just for right now where I am, it's just don't create new debt, no matter what, right? Like, no matter what, if I can't pay for it, I can't have it right now, and I have to tell on myself.
Steve:Yeah. I think that that's part of it as well. Like you mentioned you have started to feel better. Once you told your two friends about it, there's even in our step work, when we do it in the rooms, there's the power in sharing all your gunk and all your shit with someone else. And it's one thing to be the one that like, everyone thinks is fine, but there's also strength in just saying like, I'm not okay. Yeah. Just asking for help.
Mark:And that's something that I had to do a lot in the last couple of weeks with everything. Everything just felt really fucking heavy. Like knowing that my, like the whole week knowing that he was going to pass and the whole week in between like him passing and the services, like, and anytime like news came through from one of my brothers or sisters about like how my mom was doing or like something at work that was frustrating. I just would break down and cry, you know, I had a friend in town visiting and like, I was not okay. And like, I'm beating myself up for not being a good host because you needed me to be a good host, but like, not giving myself the grace to be like, you know what, I'm not okay. You know and I think that that's something that once you get some time under your belt, you can take for granted and not want to, like, have to admit.
Steve:Yeah, for sure. And I know that whenever I am on autopilot and I'm starting to realize that I might be getting off track, like the one thing that helps me kind of realize what I'm losing myself over and what I need to just accept is the serenity prayer. Of like accepting like the difference between the things I can and can't change. Do you have any other prayers or quotes that help you through those tough times?
Mark:A Hail Mary. No. You know, I think it's just, I need to connect with someone else who's not going to be afraid to tell me the truth. That's right. And I can't keep trying if, if I'm grasping and it's all falling through my fingers and I start to realize that like, it's affecting everything, right? Because like, for me, like, I think of life as like a Jenga, that one solid, that one piece that will always throw everything else off for me has always been financial insecurity. Always. I'm no longer attractive. Nobody's going to want to date me. Who's going to want to get in a relationship with somebody who can't get their finances together, or whatever it might be. I've had people cut me out of their lives for unknown reasons. Right. And I looked for every single sword that I needed to fall on. I don't know where I was finding all these things and all these swords that I needed to fall on. And one of the things was that a mutual friend was like, You're not what's wrong. They're going through something. Yeah. Right? I need someone to like put their hand out when they see me spinning. Like I need that person to put their hand out on my shoulder and just be like, you don't need to spin what's going on, you know? And I'm fortunate to have really built. This little group of people who, who, who will do that for me and who count on me to do that for them, so I know it's not like a prayer or a saying or, or anything like that, but I just need my people.
Steve:Yeah. And that's so important. And that's one thing I love about like people, especially I met in recovery, like when you share something and they're like, do you want advice? Sometimes the answer is yes. And like, you want the honest truth. And sometimes it's, no, just let me just like be a miserable, like hunt for a little bit, please. But so many times, people in my everyday life, they like complaining, complaining. I'm like, oh, you want my advice? And they're like, sure. But then they're not ready to hear it. It's just about complaining about it. So it's nice that people in the rooms are oftentimes more open to knowing that our thinking is wrong or that, we need that kind of editing and that kind of helped thinking through
Mark:things. Yeah. And I think recently just saying the words, I'm not okay. Everything feels really heavy. I'm sad. Right. Like just using that, those, those three sentences. Has been really helpful, even just for me to say out loud. Right? You know
Steve:those are all three things that growing up we probably were trained not to say as you know,
Mark:Oh, absolutely. Right. Like, yeah, I grew up in a very tough household. I'm the youngest of eight kids. My father was, you know, Italian American ex Marine, former boxer construction guy, like, you know, hmm. But he was a softy inside, but you didn't, we didn't really understand that until we got, he got much older and we were all old enough to really be like, oh, you're not that tough after all, you know, and I think as a gay kid, I wore so much of that on my sleeve from very early on. And it was sort of. Shamed out of me, not beaten out of me by any means, but you know, I often share in meetings that like, I didn't know I was short until I went out in the world and people told me I was short or like, I didn't know I was queer or gay or whatever they wanted to call you back in the day until somebody else said it. I didn't know that like, I should be ashamed of like liking feminine things until someone else shamed me for it. Right? So it's the same sort of thing. Like, there are all these things about being a queer kid that we're sort of told are bad, that, like, I really embrace
Steve:now. Yeah, half of my recovery has been just unlearning the things that bad people taught me.
Mark:Right. And there was a, Sonique, when she, the year she won All Stars said don't let that wounded child Make your grownup decisions, something like that. Something like that. I remember thinking, holy shit. Wow. That's really good. You know? And, and I think in this last year, I've done a lot to try to take care of that. Wounded little queer kid who didn't know what to do, or, or, you know, was confused, you know, and I think when I put myself in situations, whether it's with finances or with sex or with isolation that, like. I need to remember that, like, my thinking is my problem, right? My drugs and alcohol were a symptom of my broken thinking, right? I thought that those were the cure, but they weren't, right? I used those to try to pacify. You know, the broken thinking or the voices in my head or the, the little things that told me I wasn't good enough or, you know, or any of the myriad of things that we tell ourselves. Right. Yeah,
Steve:for sure. I know that. Yeah. I'm my own worst critic and my thinking can get really bad, but when I learn and I'm able to identify and talk it out with people and talk about on episodes like this, like it helps us and it will help people who listen as well. So thanks for picking this as a topic.
Mark:Just where I am today, right? There
Steve:we go. And what is something that you're looking forward to either in your recovery or in your personal life?
Mark:I think something I've learned in these last couple of months is just like life is too short, right? To sit back and wait or sit back and, I don't wanna say let the parade pass by, but it's too short to get stuck. Yeah, exactly right. So like I don't wanna be miserable over whatever I situation I created in my head that put me in, whether it's debt or, you know, people who act out sexually sometimes are like, oh, now I have go, you know, this thing. Or I picked up this, or I picked up. Right? And then they're like, I don't wanna pick up anything. That's going to leave me feeling shameful. I want to remember and look forward to creating joy for myself and others in my sobriety, in my personal life, in my queerness. Like, I want those things to bring joy to other people, right? And I want to enjoy the joy those things coming from other people bring to enrich my life. Right. When in the 10th step, we say, what did I do to add to the fabric of life today? Well, like, you know, what did I do? Well, you're right.
Steve:You're doing a lot. And if people wanted to see you creating all this amazing stuff and follow you on the socials, where would they find you?
Mark:So on Instagram, I am. Hey, Marco, H E Y M a R K O eight as in the eighth child in my family.
Steve:Excellent. Sounds good. Well, thank you so much for coming back, Mark. It is always a pleasure.
Mark:Thank you so much. I love being here and I love when we get a chance to just kind of rap about our queer social sober selves.
Steve:Yeah. Yeah. And we'll also get a chance to chat a little bit more on the post show so you can head on over the Patreon page if you want more time with Mark and I. Otherwise, make sure you're following us wherever you're listening right now so you can get these new episodes every Thursday. And if you have a friend or a fellow who might enjoy listening, tell them about it. Until next time, stay sober, friends.