Steve welcomes back friend of the podcast, Frank, to discuss how our careers evolved in our recovery to eventually becoming our own bosses.
Topics Covered Included:
For more Frank, follow them on IG @manyourstyle - and follow us while you are at it @gayapodcast
Check out our Post-Show on our Patreon page- www.patreon.com/gayapodcast
Until next time, stay sober, friends!
Listeners, I NEED YOUR HELP! This podcast is growing rapidly, and I want to make sure we can all grow together, so take this survey and let me know what I'm doing right and where I should focus my attentions going forward to provide the best podcast for YOU possible! CLICK HERE!
Steve welcomes back friend of the podcast, Frank, to discuss how our careers evolved in our recovery to eventually becoming our own bosses.
Topics Covered Included:
For more Frank, follow them on IG @manyourstyle - and follow us while you are at it @gayapodcast
Check out our Post-Show on our Patreon page- www.patreon.com/gayapodcast
Until next time, stay sober, friends!
Listeners, I NEED YOUR HELP! This podcast is growing rapidly, and I want to make sure we can all grow together, so take this survey and let me know what I'm doing right and where I should focus my attentions going forward to provide the best podcast for YOU possible! CLICK HERE!
Hi everyone, and welcome to Gay A, a podcast about sobriety for the queer community and our allies. I'm your host, Steve Bennett Martin. I'm an alcoholic and addict, and I'm grateful for all the amazing opportunities 2024 has in store for all of us. As of this recording, I am 934 days sober, and today we're welcoming back a dear friend of the pod, Frank, to talk about the impact our sobriety has had on our careers. Welcome back, Frank!
Frank:Hello!
Steve:What's been new in your life since May?
Frank:Oh, so much has transpired since our last meet. I became a nomad, gave up my apartment, turned 40, turned life upside down, and now here we are, almost 2024. Excellent. So it's been quite an adventure. Sounds like it.
Steve:And why choose the topic of kind of career or bossing as we were talking about it?
Frank:wEll, when we started talking about your new career adventure, which is very exciting. I'm always very supportive of people when they sort of go off on their own and do their own thing. And the sort of topic of career, I find it very interesting in sobriety because sort of what I set out to do in my life in my early twenties, sort of in the depths of active addiction and like where I'm at now are nowhere near what what it was or so far from like the idea that I had in my head of what I would do with my life. It's not even funny. So you know, and I know that for me that for sure sobriety has. Shift it sort of those ideas drastically, you know, because getting sober and like doing the work and like realizing so much more, you know, there's just so much more potential and like things that you can do when you're not using drugs and, and drinking.
Steve:Yeah, for sure. I know that right off the bat, I always had a complicated relationship with work, money and career, just with the way that my. family obsessed over career and my dad defined himself based off of his job and I know right off the bat when I turned 16 the first thing on my 16th birthday was like okay You got a job now and that was you know, I had to be employed from then on but I you know I'd lucked out at least my first job. I enjoyed I was a Swim instructor at the YMCA. What was your kind of attitude of work or growing up and going into the workforce?
Frank:Very similarly I had sort of a paper job when I was 15, and then right right at the turn of 16 for me as well, I started working as well, and I even did like a school to work program in high school, my, my junior and senior year, where I would go to school half a day and then work for the rest of the day, and, My first job was in a grocery store in New Orleans, and then and then I worked in the Tulane University Fitness Center at like a Smoothie Stand my senior year of high school, and and yeah, and it was very much, you know, I You It was an expectation really to to work. My father actually wanted me to pay rent and I refused because I'm like, no, I'm not an adult quite yet. And I'm in high school. So but I essentially paid for everything from the start of like. Working at 16. Oh, yeah. I
Steve:mean, not so much rent, my parents didn't try, and get me into that. But, if I wanted to go out with friends, it was the money I made from work. If I wanted new clothes, it was the money I made from work. if I wanted new anything or to do anything, it was what I earned. they stopped giving me outsider birthdays and holidays gifts or presents.
Frank:Yes. Same.
Steve:Yep. Yeah. And then,, for me, through college, I worked at various retail jobs, even to try and help, put myself through and have those expenses to be able to do things in college. And that's also when alcohol,, crept in. And I just remember being hungover in retail so many times. Do you have experiences of what it was like when drinking or drugs started impacting your
Frank:work? Oh, absolutely. I mean, I can recall multiple times of like going into work hungover. I remember one particular time in undergrad and trying to do inventory and and count after like being out basically all night. And, you know needless to say, I was I was dismissed early that day. And yeah alcohol and, you know, eventually drugs definitely interfered. bUt you know, I didn't see anything wrong with it really. You know, and even when it came to drugs, like, I I overdosed in the bathroom at work during lunch and like disappeared for four hours, and then just kind of wandered back and like no one really asked any questions. It was kind of odd. And I was like, I just, I need to go home. And, you know. Yeah, it, you know, it, in the end, like, when the drugs came into the picture, it got really sketchy and questionable, for sure.
Steve:Yeah, I'm lucky that as an adult, quote unquote, like, whatever that means, cause, but, you know, in college I have this one memory of, working at Victoria's Secret. It was after New Year's, and then, we had to go right into, getting ready to set the floor. And I had done, so much cocaine, and, like one sneeze, and all the white panties were all of a sudden red, and it was just not a good place for me to be in. And it was another one of those things where I was, like, I needed to go home. But I felt like I would also excuse myself at the time, because I would tell myself, well, these aren't, my real Growing up, jobs were like, this isn't my career. I knew it was very much like a part time hourly job just to get me through the motions. I mean, did you have any sort of shift or change in the way that you approached it when it was more of a career than it was a job?
Frank:wEll, so for me, so I was in my undergrad, I worked in a coffee shop and that sort of thing. So, I didn't care so much about sort of the impression as much. But, and I mean, I was also in denial. So,, someone tried to call me out on it. I probably would just tell you. You were wrong. But when it came to using and like when drugs came to the picture, I was in sort of my industry position, and the, the drugs for sure, sort of took me out of being present in that role, like showing up completely high or, hungover or whatever the case may be. And in the
end,
Frank:and it was interesting because., no one ever like management, upper management ever asked me questions which I look back now and like, just seems odd, but, you know, I'm sure there's legal out legal things, you know, that, around that sort of thing, but ultimately I, I jumped ship before that ship sank and got out of that position, got sober in 2009, started to get sober in 2009 and then sort of took like a very like easy job, like non industry job, like working in a spa at like the front desk. And, and that's what I did like my first year of sobriety and and that was the best thing I could have done for sure because it really just took the pressure off and allowed me to focus on getting sober and not being someone in charge of so many decisions.
Steve:Yeah, I can relate to that so much because I was in a very high. Pressure senior living sales job when I got sober and I realized that within my first three months as I was going through emotions it was not a very healthy cycle where part of my behaviors were triggered by feelings of not being good enough and not meeting expectations or hitting goals and It was just an unhealthy environment for me. So I did end up switching to work in the business office, which was something that I did in my early twenties. So it was like almost stepping back a decade, but doing that, for about a little over a year did give me a chance to kind of heal and grow and work on my recovery. And I can focus on my steps and going to meetings and doing the things and connecting with fellows. It definitely helped me heal as well. When did you feel like you were ready to go beyond that?
Frank:So, so for me, I relate so much to that. it was such a great decision when I look back at that now. I was probably about 18 months in, and And I remember it like very clearly because I I started to get to a point where, you know, I, I'm a very creative individual. So it would make sense that eventually I would get bored with this position. So, you know, I was, doing as much as I can to, like, create sort of work for me, like, in this environment, like, creating, like, flyers for, like, events, or, like, planning events, and, you know, figuring out ways to incorporate my skills but I remember my One of my last reviews in that spa and the manager, the manager said to me, you know, like the review was like, it was a glowing review. And 1 of the last thing she said to me was like. I love having you here, but you don't belong here. You, it's time for you to, to take your talents and move on. And it was just like, so it was such a, like an emotional moment. Cause you know, I just like hearing that and sort of that thing where like, I don't completely realize like what I'm doing until someone points it out, you know, or, you know, sort of the impact that we have. Just by doing what we do, and so it just really took me off guard when she said that, and and then from that moment, like, that's when I knew that it was like, all right, now, what's next, like, where do I go from here? And that's when I really started putting out sort of the feelers to get back into my industry job, which was in working in visual, working in display. anD so I worked for Nordstrom at this time, and and so I just started really applying to Nordstrom visual positions across the country, because the thing with Nordstrom, like, they're typically in a pretty decent place, no matter where you go, so I figured, you know, just cast the net and see where, see where I land, so I ended up in a position in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. And and so I packed everything I owned and it was the first time I moved for a purpose and not a geographic, which was amazing. And and I moved to Palm Beach Gardens for that role. So that was around 18 months when I did that, but it was scary, you know but like hearing those words from the manager just made me realize, you know, I need to, I need to do this. Yeah,
Steve:that must have been so nice to like hear that from someone that you had like who you trusted and you valued what they felt so much I know that I didn't necessarily have that up front as kind of my kick in the boots for me. After I got through my first, year and a half or so of recovery, I definitely feel like I kind of went on autopilot, which, was especially, being that I was in a safe space and healing and, all of that, but I did get to the point where I wasn't, pushing myself or challenging myself the way that I was at first, and it was only when I really started working with a sponsee that, it got me to kind of look at myself and be, like, also, what's next, because, I've done all of these things, But there's gotta be, more. And so, when I made that shift, though, and started doing all the coursework and everything, when I did go public with it, it was nice hearing so many people that were like, Oh, that makes sense. You know, Oh, that's perfect. we knew you were going to leave eventually, it was just a matter of when, and what you're doing is perfectly you. So, that was definitely Very nice to hear and what has your experience been like now that you're I'm guessing you're continued to travel
Frank:Yes, so so for me, so when I worked for Nordstrom, I worked for Nordstrom for about seven years straight then like starting my 20s and I went through their whole sort of visual manager training program and really in my head, I thought I would be a visual manager for Nordstrom may move around a little bit as, you know, that was pretty typical that you would be a visual manager in 1 store and, you know, and tend to move around a little bit based on the needs and. Store volumes and things of that and I really, you know, in my head, like, that's sort of where I saw my path. Like, I didn't see anything past that. And and it was when so in, in Florida, in Florida, I relapsed and I came back into the program pretty quickly. And it was that 2nd time around. Working with a new sponsor. And this particular sponsor really focused on law of attraction and sort of putting out the energy and things of that. And and so through that experience, that's where I really started to see, because even with my very first sponsor in Chicago he always sort of made it clear that you can Really have anything that you want as long as you keep sobriety number one. And it was really with him where I really started to see sort of that snippet of like limitless opportunities that we have, you know, as, as a result of being sober and just showing up and and so through this next sponsor after coming back into the program and really starting to you know, focus on more of what I want, you know, because a big part of like law of attraction and things of that, it's like being very specific of like what you want. It's not just like putting on a generic thing. It's like the nitty gritty details you know, putting it out there. And and so for me, like, that's when I really started to see beyond this idea of like being a visual manager for the rest of my career. And And so I really, ultimately realized that Florida was not for me. No offense. Okay, it's
Steve:not for everyone, politically especially.
Frank:Florida was great. It gave me the space to get my feet grounded again in early recovery, which I'm very grateful for. But it was through that experience where I realized that I needed to be where I always wanted to be, and that was here in New York. And and so through that sponsor and the way, you know, Things were instilled. I started putting up the energy through a photo. I would post a photo every single day and labeled it energy until the very day I moved to New York. And it was that 1st experience where really just focusing on that and then putting out that energy and just watching it sort of unfold. And, and how it all kind of happened organically. I had already kind of had my foot in New York through New York Fashion Week. A sort of a gift of my very first sponsor, who was a venue manager in Fashion Week, got me in as a volunteer. And and then eventually I went on to work behind the scenes of Fashion Week for 20 seasons, which is crazy. Because that in itself is something I figured I would do as a volunteer for like a season or two and like that was it. And then that turned into a whole nother career in itself. So I already kind of had my foot in the door in New York in terms of like recovery and things of that. And so on my very last trip to Fashion Week in New York I had learned that the company Nordstrom was downsizing and my position was kind of taking me sort of in a backwards position and it really wasn't where I wanted to go. And so you know, it, it's really sobriety that gave me the courage to go back there and say thank you, but no to what they were offering me and put in my two week notice and I moved to New York. A month later, without a job.
Steve:Yeah, that's so brave. I mean, you have to take that jump because that is very similar to at the end, like it all started because originally I was going to be coaching like part time in the new year while they moved me from one building to another and the offer that they gave me for that move from one community to another. It was not like the easier commute and less work and less responsibilities that I was promised to be. It was a lot more work and less benefits and things like that. And so that's when I as well had to just say like, thank you, but no thank you, and take that leap, take that leap. Now, how did that leap work for you?
Frank:You know, it was interesting because I, I still remember in the visual manager at the time, I remember her asking me if I was sure on what I was doing and in the back of my head, you know, I'm like, I have no idea what, what the hell I'm doing, but without, without skipping a beat, like the words that came out of my mouth was absolutely, I'm 100 percent sure you know, and I remember calling my very first sponsor And sort of explaining like what I was doing and, you know, and it was his words to that, like, made me realize like, okay I'm definitely on the right path and also to like, I am very big on sort of the intuition and, and my God, everything felt correct on what I was doing. I felt completely calm about it. And you know, and that sponsor even said to me, he was like, you know, there are a lot of people I know. If they were doing this, I would be like, you're crazy, but I know you and I know what you're capable of doing. And I know that you, I'm not worried about you at all. You're going to get to New York and you're going to hit the ground running. And and so, so yeah, so I, you know, bought that one way ticket to New York and you know, because I experienced what it's like to relocate. sober and then relapse. And having that period relapse in me, I knew that I needed to do things differently when I got to New York. And so I was much more vocal about that was moving here and sort of cutting myself in as a newcomer and I remember even someone an old timer messaging me I hadn't even got off the plane yet and her message was welcome to New York dot dot dot now get to a meeting and you know, and getting to a meeting and like within a month I was, I was. Chair of like a like one day retreat and all these other things where it was just like, people were like, where in the hell did this bitch come from? Mm-Hmm. You know, because I had, I knew I didn't wanna go back to where I was and I knew that I needed to do it differently than when I relocated to Florida. And you know, and I've been on that same journey ever since and, you know, and now over almost 12 years, which is crazy to me because it feels, in a lot of ways, it does feel like yesterday, but there's just been so many, so many things, you know, with Really like moving to New York. That's, that's when I realized sort of the, like getting sober and like doing the work realizing that there was just so much more that I want to do than be a visual manager for the rest of my career.
Steve:Yeah, I was gonna say what over the past, like 12 years, what would you say has been one of your most surprising accomplishments?
Frank:So the thing is, so moving to New York, I, the first year that I lived here, I relanced because, here there's a thing in New York where even though I had visual and display experience, I didn't have a New York experience. And so I had difficulties sort of getting a full time job because of that. Because the, the speed at which New York works is, is very different. It's kind of scary. The things that when I Now, like 10 years in, like some of the things that I can accomplish in a short period of time that you go anywhere else and they would do that in two to three days is a little mind boggling. But I, so I freelanced my first year and then once I got that sort of New York experience, I, I started working full time for Neiman's and then it was Neiman's Neiman Marcus for about 4 years and then left and went full time at Saks. And that was the. Sort of last place that I worked and it was not it was not the greatest experience And it was in that experience where I realized that I definitely don't want to do this anymore I don't want to work for a person I want to do my own thing and I really started to put the effort in the work and take the action you know because that's the big thing that I learned in sobriety and that Very first sponsor. It's like, if I want anything, I have to do some kind of action. I can't just like put it out in the world that I wanna do this thing, I have to do action towards it. Yeah. And and so that's really been a consistent sort of theme in my own sobriety. It's like taking that action and then just like letting the rest go. And and so, you know, again, going back to intuition, so I, I started to put out feelers for, like, freelance work and things of that. And I started to line up some interviews for freelance opportunities. And I was set to give in my two week notice at SACS. And the week before that happened I was laid off amongst several hundred others as part of a massive like company layoff at the time. And and I ended up with like a month of severance pay. So, you know, like that moment, it's, it's when it's that moment where I'm like. Always listen to your, like, your instincts never lie. And, you know, and I remember sitting in that room and having that, that interview, that exit interview. And, you know, they're very somber and then, you know, and I'm like, in my head, I'm like, Yes, this is the greatest thing. Yeah. You know, because everything is going well. Yeah. Yeah. I exactly, it's exactly that where I'm like, I know I'm exactly where I need to be. And I'm on the right path, you know, and I remember them, you know, giving me the whole spiel about unemployment and like, if I had any feedback and I just replied with like, this has been great. Thank you so much. Peace. And, you know, their faces were a little like you know, and so those interviews that I had lined up. On the phone that day I had in person and I started freelancing that Tuesday and I've never looked back since and so I have operated as a small business now for six years, six years. Congratulations. So I would say that's probably, probably the biggest thing you know, in terms of sobriety, like being able to do that and, and to be able to survive and thrive as an artist, as an independent artist on my own. And you know, it's amazing to see, you know, like what you're doing and, and like doing your own thing too, which you know, I know for me when people ask, I'm always like, do it. Like, if you've got the opportunity, do it. Take the risk.
Steve:Yeah, otherwise, I realized I was at that point where I was, if I didn't do it now, I would spend the rest of my life, wondering, what if? So, I'm doing it now, and it's amazing. What advice would you give for someone who might be on that cusp of ready to strike it out on their own or take that leap of faith?
Frank:I Would say, first and foremost, like, do your research and, you know, and network. You know, well in advance, like if you are, you know, in a position and you know, you're considering it, like definitely do your research and do some networking and, you know, see, see what the market is for what you want to do and, and put out feelers and, and see what
Steve:happens. That's definitely great. I know that the age of the Internet, there's so many ways that you can research and plan things out in advance. And then, it gets to the point though, where once you have all those facts, you also have to take that leap as well and just absolutely,
Frank:absolutely. And LinkedIn to LinkedIn is a great resource that I highly recommend for anyone. I do the paid subscription, which I find very helpful. I, I tend to use that a lot where if I see something that I'm interested in, I will go and search the people who work for the company and like send messages. So I find that to be a very, like, useful tool for sort of getting through, like, you know, because the, the thing is, it's like, if you're sending something through, like a website you know, a general. Email, I feel like the odds of your email being seen or who knows, like, exactly. Yeah. So I'm more about like, let me go through this channel, find an individual, and, you know, direct, like, try to be as direct as possible.
Steve:Well, as I start learning the LinkedIn, I will be sure to hit you up.
Frank:Yeah. Yeah. So, so yeah, so I mean, you know, it's been, it's been a process but I definitely know at this point. In my life, especially as I Now enter my 40s. I can't see myself like working for an individual company. I just, I think that sort of capacity to do that is, is gone. I really enjoy my freedom. I, I enjoy sort of the flexibility that I have with doing a variety of things. I'm kind of in the middle of a shift. Where. I'm kind of going more towards academia. I'm heading back to school next year, which is part of my sort of nomadic way of living sort of fits into that. And I'm going back for my PhD in the line of fashion studies on the other side of the world in Wellington, New Zealand. Wow.
Steve:That is quite the travel.
Frank:Yes. Yeah. So, so yeah, so I'm starting that. In March, and then I will be traveling sort of over there, probably the end of next year for at least a few months or so, probably. But so, yes, I'm starting to sort of shift gears and kind of go more into academia. I have some other. Projects that will soon be released that I can't really talk too much about, but there's some great things coming in 2024 that I'm excited about. And, you know, it's all because of, like, showing up and being sober and keeping sobriety number one. You know, it's, it's a challenge because my, I'm trying to remember the exact Phrase that some, I remember hearing this where, like, people would say that it's essentially, like, easier to like, easier to stay sober. Can't remember exactly how that went. But basically, like, in the beginning, my sobriety, I had all the time in the world to devote to my sobriety. And now I have a massive, huge life that occupies a lot of my time. So I have to I have to plan and carve out time for sobriety. And it's important to me to do that, but it's very challenging. You know, because I'm traveling a lot, so, you know, it's getting creative, you know, luckily because of zoom there are still a lot of zoom meetings out there. So, if I'm, you know, on the road, and I can't get to a meeting, there are zoom meetings. But, you know, sort of that philosophy, I, I very much understand now at the time that I have sober. And this life that I've built and how much more challenging it is when it comes to keeping sobriety, like, in the focus.
Steve:Oh yeah, I feel like it's easy for some people to make that excuse of when things get busy to put that meeting aside or skip that meeting or don't connect with that fellow or isolate a little bit more. But I know that's one thing that, for me, it's like, now that I have all my own time, I need to spend more time connecting, so I am connecting more with people, now that I'm, like, on my own and doing my own thing than I even was before, just because I need to stay sober if I'm gonna have any s shot at making this all work out, I can't imagine doing any of this not sober, that would be wild.
Frank:Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I, I know that I would not, I mean, never in a million years, I didn't ever think I would be going back for my PhD, like, I mean, a lot of things that I've done, like. Just ten years ago if you had said like this is what I would be doing with my life I would have said you were absolutely crazy But you know here we are
Steve:Here we are and that is beautiful. Well, thank you so much Frank. It's been such an inspiration I look forward to what the future holds for us both.
Frank:Yes definitely
Steve:And if someone wanted to reach out and follow you, where would they find you and what are your ads?
Frank:Sure. So you can find me on the Instagram at Man Your Style. I am also on TikTok at Fashion Queer Historian. And yeah, those are my two main spots to fight me.
Steve:Perfect. And while you're following Frank on Instagram, you can follow us at GayApodcast. And for more time with Frank and I, head on over to our Patreon page where we're gonna spin the Post Show topic wheel. And follow us wherever you're listening right now so you can get these new episodes every Thursday. Until next time, stay sober, friends.