Steve welcomes back a friend of the podcast, Phil, to discuss the change(s) in perspective that comes to us in recovery, along with what it's like navigating life queer and sober today.
Topics Covered Included:
For more Phil, find him on Facebook at Phil Brunke, and for more us, follow us on Instagram @gayapodcast. But if you Facebook friended me, I'll accept, too :-)
Check out our Post-Show on our Patreon page- www.patreon.com/gayapodcast
Listeners, I NEED YOUR HELP! This podcast is growing rapidly, and I want to make sure we can all grow together, so take this survey and let me know what I'm doing right and where I should focus my attentions going forward to provide the best podcast for YOU possible! CLICK HERE!
Steve welcomes back a friend of the podcast, Phil, to discuss the change(s) in perspective that comes to us in recovery, along with what it's like navigating life queer and sober today.
Topics Covered Included:
For more Phil, find him on Facebook at Phil Brunke, and for more us, follow us on Instagram @gayapodcast. But if you Facebook friended me, I'll accept, too :-)
Check out our Post-Show on our Patreon page- www.patreon.com/gayapodcast
Listeners, I NEED YOUR HELP! This podcast is growing rapidly, and I want to make sure we can all grow together, so take this survey and let me know what I'm doing right and where I should focus my attentions going forward to provide the best podcast for YOU possible! CLICK HERE!
Hi everyone, and welcome to Gay A, a podcast about sobriety for the queer community and our allies. I'm your host, Steve Bennett Martin, I'm an alcoholic and addict, and I am grateful for this new level of confidence I've discovered. As of this recording, I am 935 days sober, and today we're welcoming back a friend of the podcast, Phil. Welcome back, Phil!
Phil:Hey Steve, thanks for having me. How
Steve:are you? I am great. The last time that you were on was June right before we met in real life. What's been new in your life and your
Phil:recovery since then? So yeah, so we saw each other in New York in June at the conference and then there was the traveling back to Minnesota from said conference. Thank you. Mother Nature, that wicked, wicked woman that she was, but, my life here has been kind of status quo, you know, just kind of doing the school thing. I still work at the time. I was still working, you know, at a, at an inpatient facility on the overnight shift. But since then, so I got through the summer semester, I got through the fall semester, and I'm literally just waiting on my professors to grade and finalize everything, and on the off chance of anybody at the school ever hearing this podcast, that's all I'm gonna say about
Steve:that. Okay, sounds good. And what would you say is your favorite part of being sober today?
Phil:mY favorite part about being sober today is It's just the fact that I can pretty much handle any major issue without throwing myself a pity party, you know without doing the, oh, my life sucks. Oh, let me go get drunk. Oh, let me get high. And, life throws curve balls all the time, but, but because of sobriety, because of recovery, I'm handling them. They don't always get knocked out of the park, but I'm at least at bat taking the swing and just. putting my best effort in. Yeah,
Steve:it's very important. We show up for the game in a way that we, we couldn't before. So that is certainly a perk of recovery. And what is your favorite part of being part of the queer and gay community today?
Phil:You know, it's funny, there are times where I. Honestly, I don't like being part of the gay community because I'm 40 years old and there are times where I look back on gay history and I go, gee, there's the reason why, you know it's, I came to the realization that there are certain things about the gay community that a lot of gay boys, as an example, I always say have Peter Pan syndrome, where the boys that never grew up were always throwing the party and everything else. And I've realized that part of the reason for that is because of the fact that we didn't have role model growing up. But I use every opportunity I can now to be the role model for the next generation of, you know, young queer gender fluid alphabet soup, you know, you know, who's ever joined the rainbow coalition, you know, you know, try to show them, Hey, you don't have to be a total douchebag. You don't, you know, you don't have to. always have the smartass come back. You don't have to be, be comfortable in who you are, but you don't always have to have the last word. And, you know, and stuff like that. So, so I think that's, Like, my favorite part of being in the queer community now is really the acceptance of the fact that we are kind of sort of becoming pioneers and role models for the next generation since, you know, you and I didn't have it growing up, right? Yeah. I mean,
Steve:I certainly didn't have that kind of growing up. There was no real role models, like quote unquote, and it wasn't great, like, I talked in a recent episode about how my, high school sex education, week on gayness was like watching a video about how we all get AIDS and die. So that was, kind of the extent to what I got. So yeah, not having role models, it's great now seeing the queer youth that's coming up and just that, they don't have to have the same cycles or have that same mindset. They can kind of break those traditions that the generations before us kind of were victim to their circumstances where they don't have to be anymore. And that's been really cool to see.
Phil:Yeah, you know, it's funny. I'm glad you actually mentioned that, that other episode because I remember listening to it as I was driving to class and went, yep, I had even less of a sex education on hetero, on homosexual life and things, you know because it just wasn't even talked about, you know, and I went, but you know what, probably in the curriculum now. It's there, you know, I mean, so yeah, it's just one of those things where it's like, okay, yeah.
Steve:And also the fact that like the internet exists now and that even if they're not getting it taught in school that they can still turn on like HBO Max and watch, you know, the book of queer and like learn our history that way or You know, as much as Google could be dangerous of leading you to, like, Pornhub instead of educational resources, if you know where to look, and, like, these younger generations seem to know where to look, like, you can find these amazing resources, which I also remember just how difficult it was even navigating. Chat rooms and search browsers back in the day. Oh god.
Phil:Oh god. Yeah, the old chat rooms the first the first place. I lied about things, you know, just to try to just just just yeah, just to try to connect because I think I think that was always one of my biggest issues was the acceptance of who I am, you know, because, you know, the world around me was You know, you get up, you go to school, you get an education, you get a wife, you find a white picket fence, and you know, 2. 5 kids later, boom, you know, it's like, that's not what I want. You know? Yeah. And I
Steve:mean, that kind of brings us into the topic at hand for the week of why did you choose the change in perspective? And what did that kind of mean for you when you had those changes?
Phil:You know? Yeah. So the whole thing on like the change in perspective kind of popped into my head after you had reached out to me and asked me about doing like a follow up episode. And, I'm like, okay,, I know Steve, I know he's going to be like, so, you know, what's happened since June? And I'm like, you know, my life is so much better because of acceptance. And, you know, But my grandfather always said, you have to play the card you dealt. And the crazy thing is that he died in 1975. I wasn't born until 1983, but I always heard my mom quoting him with that. And I've come to the realization that yes, play the card you dealt, but it is absolutely okay to fold and walk away and try a different game. You know, you might be sitting, you know, playing Texas Hold'em, and you're not doing so well, but with a change in perspective, go sit at the blackjack table, and I'm, I'm only using this as it, it's the only sort of analogy I could think of. I'm really not intentionally trying to like glorify gambling.
Steve:I was gonna say all of our debtors anonymous listeners are just Shook right now. No,
Phil:I'm teasing. Yeah. Yeah. A a and, and and you know what folks? I am sorry that, that, I mean, I'm only on like my third cup of coffee, so I can't quite come up with another analogy for it. But, so, you know, the, the other thing is actually relates back to that June episode, or, you know, that quote that I live by of from Lena Horne, you know. It's not the load that breaks you down. It's how you carry it. Sometimes you gotta, you know, you might be walking back from the grocery store and I'm totally talking to like the listeners that live in New York and like hit Dagostino's on their way home from work and it's like you got like three shopping bags, you know, all slug over your left forearm and your keys are in your right hand and you're trying to get in the door and then all of a sudden it all just breaks. You know what? Not the end of the world and that, and that realization of life happens and play, you know, just keep trying, keep putting the effort and keep moving forward. Don't wallow in the like, oh, this sucks. So I think that's where, where this whole like change of perspective came from. And I actually remember. Somebody that I knew in the NA rooms in New Jersey, we saw each other weekly at a meeting and after it, and one day, like, before the meeting got started, I looked at him and he wasn't sitting in his, like, normal seat and I don't know what. What's wrong with your other seat? He's like, he's like, oh, no, it's something his sponsor used to say at home. If you can't get to new meeting, you know, because life is just so hectic, but you have your staple meetings that you make faithfully, it's like you could get the change of perspective from that same meeting. By literally sitting on the other side of the room. And that's another one that just, I really try to actually practice where it's like, no, no, let's, let's literally sit in a different spot, see the world from a different
Steve:perspective. So yeah, I mean the change in perspective is huge. I know so much of it is almost the perspective We start with is out of our control. I remember growing up It was like what was put into my subconscious by my parents I grew up with parents who would tell me like the world was a very scary place that people like naturally are Out to fend for themselves, that they will kidnap me, or hurt me, or molest me, or do things if I don't do the right things, because everything is just terrifying out there, and that the only place that I was safe is in my own little bubble. And so, going out into the real world, like, it was terrifying, because that's the perspective that I was raised with. I mean, what was your perspective like, growing
Phil:up? So my parents didn't quite have me like stay in that little bubble, but there was definitely the be careful, be careful, be careful, be careful. But. But be adventurous, be respectful, be open to learning, you know, be, you know, you know just try to, you know, connect, connect with that new student, you know, connect with, you know, connect with the new kid who, you know, just moved to the neighborhood and doesn't know everybody, you know. You know, we, you know, be, be respectful, be always be cautious, you know, because yes, the world is a big scary place, but you have to live it, you know I remember like the last couple of years of my active addiction. I thought I was living, you know, I mean, I in 2015, I drove from New York to Palm Springs, California and back. You know, and I thought that that was living, but all I saw were hotel rooms and random guys' houses along the way. You know, it wasn't, you know, like, like I didn't stop and actually like. Check out life, you know, and, and those last couple of years of active addiction, the blinds were drawn, the curtains were shot, they were blackout curtains, you know, like, just shut the world out because the world's a big scary place. And I had been taken advantage of a couple of times, you know, where it's like. No, no, you know what, I'm just going to go back to my bubble, you know, but my bubble is not meant to sit still, my bubble is meant to live and travel and see new things, but always be cautious and be careful that you're not taken advantage of. Yeah,
Steve:and especially with it taking you to that place like near the end of your active addiction where you were shut off and in that scary place. What was your, how did your perspective change when getting sober? And when did that flip
Phil:so prior to getting sober? This goes how weird I'm talking about my old car, but I had a 2016 Land Rover Discovery. I was literally driving the same car that the Queen of England, may she rest in peace, was driving. And, but I had no bank account, you know, you know the bills were all in arrears, my homeowner's insurance, it just, it just, everything was just a complete cacophony of crap. And. And I knew I couldn't pass like a pre employment drug test because it just wasn't happening. So I sold that Land Rover and I got a 2014 Jeep Cherokee. Now, the Land Rover was fully loaded, there was an app, there was heated seats, cooled seats, heated steering wheel, like, you know, just, it did everything for you, you know, and then the Jeep was a basic bitch. Didn't even have four wheel drive. It was technically a Jeep station wagon. And I'm actually kind of loving talking about this now because Land Rover is a British company. Land Rover was actually started post World War II. Based off of the American Jeep, which was made by the army for the army to be used in World War Two. So, history lesson there. Boom. But, so I went from having, like, everything, you know, to the most basic thing. And then, when I got out of rehab, and I moved in with my aunts and uncle, there was a lot of perspective change. And it was, I had gone from owning my townhouse, And being what I thought I was supposed to be at 35 years old to living with my aunt and uncle. It was the two of them, their dog, me and my dog. And the three humans were all stubborn Capricorns. So you can imagine how tense it was in that house occasionally. But, but it was very humbling because I went, you know. They kept me on a very short leash at first, like, first couple of weeks out of rehab. It was, oh, you're going to go to a meeting? Okay, great. That meeting runs from 7 to 8. 30. It's about a 10 minute drive home. You can smoke one cigarette with your new friends after the meeting. And then you better be home. And if you're not, we're going to come looking for you. You know, because And, and, and that was a different change of perspective because I had gone from being Mr. Independent, Mr. Carefree, Mr. Come and go as I please to no, no, I got to like check in with people, you know, and I'm being held accountable. And these people are family, and they care about me, and they were disappointed in. What I had become in my active addiction. So I would I had to re earn their trust and their respect and Just work my way off that figurative leash, you know, so again, it was a change of perspective because Here I was at 35. I felt like I was 15, you know, but at the same time A couple of weeks after the leash was taken off, quote unquote. I remember walking out to go to a meeting and I'm clicking the remote on my car to like unlock the car and it's raining in Jersey and it's like, and the car's not responding and I get all the way to the door and I have to put in the key to unlock the door and nothing's coming on and it's pouring rain. I walked back in my aunt's and uncle's house and I'm like. My car won't start. And I got like 15 minutes before the meeting that I was going to is starting. And my uncle just looks at my auntie and says, give him the keys. And I jumped in their car and I drove to the meeting and I was pulling into the parking lot of that meeting when, Oh shit, they trust me again. They're trusting me with their car, you know? And like the next day it was call a tow company, get the car towed to. You know, an auto store to figure out what was wrong. But again, that change in perspective. I didn't wallow and go, Oh my life sucks. My car won't start. I went, Houston, I got a problem. Let's figure out how to solve the problem. You know, and. Even, even the more immediate problem, like, cause, cause I was less than 90 days clean and I was trying to do like 90 and 90 and the fact that my uncle was like, yeah, just take our car. You know, you know, that constant change in perspective of, you know, I can, I can be pissed off that I got to deal with getting a new car, you know, or, or getting a new battery, or I could be grateful that my family loaned me their car and I was still able to make the meeting. And then. work on that problem.
Steve:Yeah. And I know how great it can be like when other people around you that feeling like when they're noticing that change in your perspective and that they're noticing the change in you. I know that my early recovery was a little different because I had my like rock bottom beforehand spiritually where I wanted to die and I thought the world was horrible and But I still had, everything on paper, and, I still went to work the next day as I was detoxing, even though I probably shouldn't have. I have no idea what the fuck happened, like, all day long, and luckily, my co worker Jessica at the time, covered for me basically for, like, two or three days, where I would go through the I would stand in morning meetings, with 20 people, say my one or two lines, and leave and be like, what happened? Like, what did we say? Because I had, no memory as I was getting through it, but after that all happened, and like, I kind of like woke up from it, I was in my my pink cloud phase, where, I felt like I was saved, and no one seemed to realize the difference in me the way that I felt different, because They thought that I was handling it before they didn't think that I was a lot of people in my life I did it other than my husband who saw me like the people at work in my day to day life were like Didn't see a difference the way that I felt the difference and it took a while for them to start noticing that like no It was just it wasn't that I'm not drinking anymore It's that like I'm my perspective has changed on the world as well, which was beautiful. Absolutely Yeah, and then how would you say after you have passed from early recovery, like how has your perspective changed over the past couple
Phil:years? so more recently, well, I can't believe I'm about to tell this story, but it is what it is. So prior to moving out here in Minnesota, I was living and working in Jersey, like hiding COVID, working in the recovery field, you know, and I was a program manager. I was. Running all sorts of, like, life was great. I had a decent salary, four weeks vacation, 13 paid holidays, fully employer funded healthcare, which is almost unheard of nowadays. You know, and there was an opportunity that, long story, short version, my boss's position had become open. And a lot of people that I worked with, saw me as the most viable replacement for my boss, you know, because life was great. Life was, you know, and, and all that. And I remember walking into my CEO's office thinking that I was going to have like my quarterly performance evaluation and like be offered this promotion. And instead I was handed a pink slip and fired. Not going to go into like all the gory details, but that has been a huge On the change of perspective because prior to Like, like the weeks leading up to that, I had already been starting to kick around the idea of graduate school because I was kind of sort of stuck in middle management and like the only way to kind of move up would have been to go back to school in a mind. I don't really want to be working a career job and then sitting online, you know, you know, virtual school in the evenings, like. You know, maybe, maybe and I, I was very wishy washy on it and after I got fired, I very quickly was like, well, you know what, goodbye to Jersey because this is just time for me to move on, you know And I mentioned that a lot of this was happening during COVID I had moved back in with my aunt like, right just before the lockdown and after, like, the lockdown and, like, the, and, like, the world was starting to open back up, you know, I couldn't afford a studio or a one bedroom apartment in New Jersey. So I was still living with my aunt and it was, it was okay, you know, but it just was like, how, how do I move on? You know, like, like, am I really going to be stuck in? living here and everything else. I mean, it was great. Cause my sponsor lives walking distance from my aunt's house. So like, you know, talk about like life is good. My aunt would get under my skin. I'd go for a walk and I'd sit on my sponsor's front stoop and like process with him and then he'd be like, Hey, dad, you're going to go home. I'm like, yeah, okay. You know but. Again, and this is where the change of perspective comes in where it's like, okay, life has changed drastically. What am I doing with this? You know, so I, you know, applied to graduate school. I got accepted. And then, you know, I, I, I found a job working for. The Hazels and Betty Ford Foundation, which is where I'm going to school. So like, you know, you know, I, I, I got dealt a shitty hand by being let go. I got dealt a shitty hand because I'm still over almost two years later, still dealing with New Jersey unemployment. Thank you, identity theft and that headache. But again, the change in perspective, it's like I was I thought I was happy at that job and we were doing some really great work, but I wasn't being challenged. I wasn't, I, I was starting to like rest on my laurels and just be like, I'm the shit. Life is great. And then I got served a big, big old piece of humble pie and it was like, no, wait a second. Let's, let's, let's continue to grow. Let's continue to challenge ourselves. Let's continue to see different perspectives. You know, life in the Midwest is very different than it is on the East Coast. You know, I'm not saying that one is better than the other, you know, but it is different here. So that's where in more recent recovery, the change in perspective keeps coming
Steve:into play. Yeah. I know that the change in perspective. It's really just a matter of how you handle the things that come at you, because with your story, it reminded me of how, when I was like, at the villas, and they were like, Okay, when you go to Sarasota, it's gonna look completely different from what we promised you when you move over in January. Is that okay that you're gonna be doing two jobs instead of one? And I had that choice where, I could have just said yes because I was on kind of autopilot and just gone with it. But I said no and, I took the risk and now I'm in this,, phase where everything that, if it scares me or my gut says, like, no, I just try and, do it anyway. how do you stay on track though, with that positive perspective or that different perspective when you have maybe that devil on your shoulder or that stinking thinking or whatever you call it, telling you that you're not good enough or that might not be the best thing for you?
Phil:yOu know what, a lot of the time I will, I will just so that that devil on my shoulder tends to pop up when I'm driving from my apartment. to school because it's about an hour's commute, you know, from the Twin Cities area, northeast of the Twin Cities to Hazleton's main facility. And it's an hour and that's a lot of alone time. Yeah, that's a lot of time for the thinking to go, what are you doing? You know, what are you doing? You don't actually know the difference between your ass and your elbow. You know but that's why, that's when I will. Get on the phone with my sponsor. I'll call some people in my network, you know, or I'll actually not drive faster than the speed limit, but just move a little bit faster and actually find one of my classmates, you know, one of my friends and just be like, I just process, you know? And, you know, it's, it's often said in the rooms, secrets die in the light of exposure. And it's like, no, no. Hey, like. I'm having this thought, you know, you know one of the guys that I worked with when I was working as a tech he's, he just finished his first semester of grad school. And a couple of times when we were working together, he was coming to me and being like, Hey, you know, like, I'm not quite feeling it. And I'm like, that's okay. Because you know what? You got accepted into the grad school, you are settling in your, in your first semester, you know, and he was a lot more ambitious than I was because he's got somewhere around two and a half, three years in the rooms, you know, and he's already in. The grad school. I'm like, dude, I didn't even apply to grad school until I had like five plus years, you know, so like That that's how I deal with it. Well, yeah, because it the thoughts do pop up still occasionally and you're like, okay Crap, you know, what? What are the rooms taught me? You know, keep it keep it simple. Keep it basic do what worked in those first 90 days. Just use your network You know And that's one of the things I love is that my network is. Diverse and in multiple time zones, so that, well, when I need to, I can connect with somebody because the thoughts pop up. Like I said earlier, most of the time they're, they're while I'm, while I'm in the car alone. Yeah. But occasionally you roll over the middle of the night, you're like, you know, but that's why I'm glad I've got people in different time zones where I could kind of shoot up a text and be like, Hey. You know, and they know, you know, and then it's process it, get it out, keep it moving, you know, acknowledge the thought, acknowledge the feeling. What are the other ones that I hear in the rooms all the time? Feelings aren't facts. Yeah. Feelings are like moments.
Steve:Yeah, that's been one of the biggest lessons I've learned in recovery, especially like even recently, having to remind myself is that like, when I have a feeling I know that it will pass, I just need to change my actions and change my like, even thinking of like the story that I'm telling myself that's resulting in those feelings, but just separating the feelings because yeah, feelings and facts are something that's very easy for us to tell ourselves or more. Entwined and they actually are. Yep.
Phil:They, you know, feelings, are feelings, you know, they're like, they're like sand through the hourglass. And guess what? You can turn the hourglass back upside down and go through another cycle of feelings, you know, you know, I used to not have certain feelings, you know, and, but then I continue to use and continue to continue. I allow myself the opportunity to have a feeling and get through it. You know, you know, you learn better ways to cope with those feelings. You know, the other day I got really annoyed and frustrated. I threw on my sneakers and I threw on a coat and I went for a nice long walk. And by the time I got back to the apartment. I had a completely different set of feelings going through me. Yeah.
Steve:So true. I was feeling worked up yesterday and I went for a walk and the walk helped me feel better because sometimes you just need to change that environment to change those thoughts too. Exactly.
Phil:And
Steve:what is something you're looking forward to in your recovery or your
Phil:personal life? So I will totally share this here because I know that it's not going to air in the near future.(Laughter) So today's Tuesday before Christmas and Thursday, I am, my roommate dropped me off at the airport. I am flying to the East Coast I'm going to actually be with my family for Christmas. Awesome. Yeah, it's a, it's a silly, funny story. Bye. My aunts invited themselves to my brother's home because my brother just bought a big new house and they invited themselves to Christmas at his house. And before he said, yes, he called me and was like, can you come? And I was like, I don't know. I don't really want to fly. Like, it's Minnesota. It's winter. And he's like, I'll pay for the airfare. I'm like, I could come. So but the ants don't know that I'm showing up. So I get in a few hours before them because they're driving down from New Jersey and I'm just looking forward to actually spending the spending the holiday with them. I, I was fortunate that I was able to see both of them when we were in New York in June, but with the conference, there was. There wasn't a lot of time to actually spend time with my family, so I'm looking forward to being able to spend Christmas with them, you know and then spend a little bit more time with my brother before I fly back before school starts up again in January. So, so that's what I'm looking forward to. The other big thing that I'm looking forward to, I, I realized this this past Saturday. So the, I am 51 weeks away from completing my master's degree. Oh, I'm looking forward to it, but honestly, I am scared shitless because it's like. There's a lot of work that's going to be done in 2024, but I'm looking forward to it, because like I said throughout the episode, keep growing, keep challenging, keep trying new experiences. I have a lot of new experiences in the wings, you know, waiting for me. And so, so that's the, the longer term thing that I'm looking forward to.
Steve:Perfect. And how can listeners find you to
Phil:connect? sO. My name is Phil Bronke, B R O N K E. You can find me on Facebook there. You can find me on Instagram too, but I, I don't really do a lot on Instagram. But, you know, if, if you follow the podcast, you can find me through there. Actually, I came to the realization. From the last episode to this episode, I'm actually doing more, thank you Facebook story for posting in Facebook and on Instagram, you know, it tends to be just, just a little like motivational stuff because I watch the news and I get depressed. I read the news and I get depressed and then I find, I try to find good motivational stuff that is applicable for the recovery community for the queer community and for the world at large. so much. So yeah,
Steve:I love Instagram is all just positive, happy things. It's all like workout, motivational stuff, metaphysical stuff and sober gay stuff. I love it. Yeah. So excellent. And listeners, make sure you follow us on the socials while you're at it at gay a podcast for more time with Phil and I head on over to our patron page for the post show and follow us wherever you're listening right now so you can get these new episodes every Thursday until next time. Stay sober friends.