Putting Down the Sword ft. Kevin

Steve welcomes Kevin to share his experience, strength, and hope while celebrating living a queer and sober life today.

Topics discussed include:

• Kevin's favorite parts of life today
• Entering recovery 'young'
• Struggling with negative self talk
• The impact of family and culture
• Being kind to yourself
• Putting down the sword
• And much more!

Follow Kevin on Instagram @kev.chiang , and follow us too @gayapodcast. Head over to the Patreon page to hear our post-show where we will chat about Gratitude!

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Transcript

Steve: 0:55

Hi everyone, and welcome to Gay A, a podcast about sobriety for the queer community and our allies. I'm your host, Steve Bennett Martin. I'm an alcoholic and addict, and I am grateful for the freedom to be my authentic self. As of this recording, I am 958 days sober, and today we're welcoming a guest to share their experience, wisdom, and hope with you. Welcome, Kevin. Hey, how are you? I am great. And I have had the pleasure of getting to know you online the past couple of weeks, but why don't you introduce yourself to the listeners?

Kevin: 1:25

Sure. So hi, my name is Kevin and I'm a guest to add on to what you were saying. I'm also a alcoholic as well, a recovering alcoholic, and I don't really know the exact days, but it's around 20, 22 months, but it's around that time. Time frame. Awesome. Yeah. It's

Steve: 1:44

nice to meet you. And what would you say is your favorite part of being sober today?

Kevin: 1:49

There are so many things I love about being sober. I think the one thing that I really, really love is the fact that I can just be present. It's like not only just being present, it's the fact that I can just be aware of my surroundings, right? And, and let me tell you, that's not just as a result of not drinking. I feel like that. Is the result of a lot of mental work, a lot of tools, plus the add on with no alcohol. Because the fact that I can just look at the world around me and for once see everything, and just appreciate everything and be grateful for them, and just being able to look like them a lot differently. Because I remember in the past I was not able to, you know, I was not able to look at life very clearly and I was able to I was I have to look at it very negatively and so now being able to see in a very different light and seeing it in a more positive way I feel like that's one of my most favorite things.

Steve: 2:53

Yeah, I can certainly relate to that I knew I grew up in a household that. taught me that the world was a scary place and that people were scary and that places were scary and yeah I grew up with fear so it's almost like it was I drank it away like as soon as I could or smoked it away or whatever I did I tried to just get away from how scary it is and it's It's been beautiful learning in sobriety how beautiful the world could be. And it really is just a matter of your perspective on it. So thank you for sharing that.

Kevin: 3:22

Yes. And also it's kind of funny how like when you're taught that the world is scary, then you go out yourself and you find out all for yourself that the world is actually scary. And you're like, Oh, wait a minute. It's like, okay.

Steve: 3:31

Yeah. It's that self fulfilling prophecy. And what would you say is your favorite part of being a member of the queer community today?

Kevin: 3:41

Ah, I love that question so much because I actually the fact that I can say I love that question is actually a huge shift for me because like I think like like every kid out there under the umbrella you know there's a moment where you know you're embarrassed you don't like the identity you look and you don't like this you know like that you're ashamed of yourself I think the fact that I can walk this earth and just be proud and happy and like not just literally like walk the earth and not even care not even give a shit about anyone I feel like that being under the umbrella, I feel like that has taught me that I feel like that kind of taught me that skill because I feel like had I been like straight, I would not have learned that quite as quickly. And also the fact that I can have fun, with whoever I want, whoever I meet and just like be, be just whoever I need to be without putting a label on. I think that's, I think that's what it is. Yeah.

Steve: 4:37

I love that. I know that. Yeah. Similarly being queer and sober or queer and an alcoholic were two things I was so ashamed of for so long that I love that I love them now. And why don't you share a little bit about what your story and your road to sobriety look like?

Kevin: 4:54

Oh that's such a unique story. I mean, not really unique. But I just want to say unique in terms of when generally speaking people hear of the word recovering alcoholic or alcoholic, they'll think like they think of the grand story of like, oh, this big bad story of like, what of what of what we did in the past and like all these horrible things that we did, but I My story wasn't really like that. You know, I, I started my drinking very, very late. I think I started around 19 and that for a couple of reasons. One, I grew up in a very conservative Chinese, like Asian family where, you know, we follow the rules on the time and we were taught don't drink until we're legal age. And even when we are legal age, we don't drink as much. And so I was, as a kid, I always tried my best to follow the rules, but not really because I mean. I was, most people were Relly's kids, so I didn't really follow the rules that much, but no drinking, I followed that, and, so I started at 19, and also, I was the only, that I know of, the only alcoholic in my family, like, no one, my family really aren't, they aren't really drinkers. No one really drinks big. And so I was kind of the black sheep who just kind of went off the rails and just like that. And so that was really interesting coming in and like learning about recovery because I was trying to figure out my roots. Like figuring out like where did this come from? Did this come from my family? But I don't really know anyone, right? And so there was that. And also, I also stopped. Because my journey started very late, but it ended, but it went, it went downhill very, very fast. It got bad really, really fast. And so I think, I think I thankfully was able to stop when I was able, was when shit really hit the fan. And so like most people, I drank too. numb out. I drank because I didn't want to feel anything. You know, I had a hard time managing emotions. And so, like most of us, we turned to substances and alcohol because It was the one thing that we knew of that can basically shut down our emotional system, right, and to make us not feel and to not think. And so, you know, I was a kid, you know, even at a young age, when I look back, I was always a very emotional person. I was always someone who was not able to function very well because I had high pent up energy. And when I discovered alcohol, that was like You know, I couldn't, I cannot even describe to you like what that was like and what that felt like when I first touched and I felt like what that did to me because, you know, just like in the, you know, I hear people all the time in recovery being like, Oh, we've been waiting for you to get well and all this stuff. And like, I feel like alcohol did the complete opposite where like they, it was waiting for me, but it was waiting for me to fall off the rails to be like, ha ha, I gotcha. Like, like we're best friends now. Let's go off the rails. Right. And so. When I discovered that, A, I learned that this was something that could help my emotions. I don't have to, get to a place where I just like spiral out and my emotion and my emotions go off the rails. Like, I don't need a therapist, I don't need doctors, I could just have this close, close friend with me. And if I look back, my first drink ever was to numb my emotions. It wasn't, I didn't share that same place like most people where they say like, Oh, I, my first drink was, I was just curious. I saw everyone else do it. So I wanted to do it too. Like that, that was not my story. My story was like, I think like I was in my first drink ever. I was in college and I had like an issue with one of my professors and I remember at the time like during the moment like my emotions were so so high and like I could not shut it down and I had alcohol in my hand because, you know, so a little bit backstory so like I went to so a little bit backstory I went to fashion school and our assignment was to do like a little photo shoot we have to pick like a little way to pick like an object to like. Do a photo shoot on and, everyone did like normal things, like everyday items, hats, watches, ladders, and all this crazy stuff. And I was the one kid that was so smart and decided to pick, I'm going to do alcohol as my prop. You know, that's what I'm doing. That's what I'm going to do my photo shoot on. And so that's why I had alcohol in my hand. And so when I had the little tip with mine's professor, I remember walking out the room, feeling all of this. stuff in my system and I just took the drink in my hand and just chugged it and that was my first ever real experience and so my first real experience was to numb out and so I think I keep I say like looking back like I feel like I was doomed from the start from that moment because you know I was drinking for the wrong I was drinking for the wrong reasons and it just kind of went you know I just feel like it just went on from there, you know, I, after that moment, I feel like I started to drink with a normal person, you know, I did what we all do, you know, we went to parties, went to bars, we had fun, we got wasted with our friends, we, you know, just had a grand old time and all this stuff, you know, and I, this is what I do share with everyone else, like, I was the one who was always, I was the one who was always drunk, I was always the one who drank more than everyone else, everyone was worried for me because they're like, you're drinking so much, are you okay? Right? Like, and I was, yeah. I had a great time, but that was outside in my life behind closed doors. What was going on? Was that, you know, I. I grew up in a family that was very, very volatile, and, it's a very dysfunctional dynamic, and I'm not just talking about in my household, like the entire family has issues, and One of the things that is really frustrating and really difficult about my culture is that when it comes to families, like no one really just focus on their immediate family, everyone's always involved. And so, especially because my grandparents were living with me at the time. Every single time someone had an issue, they would run to, my grandma, right? And so, every day I was dealt. Surrounded with trouble and chaos and all this unmanageability and all this tension and all these fights and all this stuff and so, you know, and this happened since I was a young kid and obviously, like, dealing with it as an adult, when I started to be aware of what was going on, I just lost my mind. And I, that was when my drinking started to get worse because when I discovered alcohol, I drank. Help me function in that household, you know what I mean? And I drank to really help me get through a lot of the stuff that was going on. And the thing was that there were so many times where, panic attacks, anxiety attacks, trouble breathing, like depression and all the stuff. And like it was happening every single day means I would drink every single day. And that became a habit. Every time something would happen in my home, I would run to the bottle, I would run to all this stuff. But I think that drinking started to get worse for me when I, started to drink when nothing was going on. there were times where, I told myself, oh, alcohol will only be there if my home is really, really, really chaotic, and so that would be there. Other than that, I will not, other than that, I won't drink. But then there were, but then it, grew to me drinking because nothing was going on. I remember like waking up at like maybe like nine in the morning and it was like 10 to 10 in the morning. I remember being like, I'm bored. I was like, whatever. And so I, I've been all, and the next thing I knew I'm like downing a bottle of scotch. And I'm like, as the next thing, you know, I'm drunk, right? Born out. And so, and then, so that started to progress. And I feel like that just kind of went. It just went bad from there and then it's just the cycle, the cycle started, you know, the cycle kind of started and, you know, I think like something I can end with where I feel like I knew it was kind of the end for me where I drank myself sober because I Had drank. I don't really know. Sorry. I don't think drinking myself. So what's the right phrase? I think I feel like there was a time where you know I drank so much to the point where no matter how much drink I could not get drunk, right? Because you know, like most of the drinks get drunk because you know, that was our end goal to get shit faced I remember going to a restaurant with a couple of my friends and I remember downing a couple of shots of tequila and Got no buzz whatsoever. I felt like I was drinking water and at that point I was just like, what is going on with me? I can't, right? And then that was when I smoked weed for the first time because I was like, oh, this doesn't work anymore. And so I have to go get with the next best thing and how my brain operated that way that knew like I'm such an alcoholic for doing that because like I just want to run to the next best thing, which was weed because everyone told me that it was, it does wonders and does great things and all that, you know, and all that stuff. But I think like, you know, I didn't think like I do want to end. I do want to end this question with this. So I also was I did most, I did majority of my drinking like behind closed doors, you know, I hidden myself, you know, no one really knew what was going on. I didn't drink and I didn't like get shit faced in public. I didn't have like these, you know, I didn't have all these like crazy stories. I didn't go to, you know, I didn't have problems a lot. I didn't go to jail. I wasn't homeless. I wasn't like broke. I didn't lose my job. I had, you know, I had all my basic needs. I like function like a normal person. I just, you know, was in my house drinking all the time when things got too chaotic for me. You know, I locked myself in my room and I Drink when everyone went to bed.'cause I went to hide it. I went to hide it. I didn't want people to know, especially since in my culture, alcoholism and addiction is a huge stigma. And so I just didn't want anyone to know. And so I just tried my best to hide it. And I was a good hide. I was a good liar. And so yeah, my, my, my addiction was very, very private. And I fortunately didn't really get in trouble, and I didn't hurt anyone, thankfully, so. Yeah, that's a little spill. In short form.

Steve: 15:17

Thank you for sharing that. I can definitely relate to that kind of cycle. I know when I got sober and relearned, because I was a psychology major, I knew alcohol was a depressant, but I forgot, and while I was drinking, no one could tell me it might make me sad. I was like, no, this is the answer. It makes me happy. It makes me happy. I'm special. I'm unique. But yeah, I was then having anxiety attacks and panic attacks and depressed as fuck. So yeah, it was the alcohol. And so I suffered in silence as well, other than my husband who knew that something was not right. You know, a lot of people on the outside didn't know and were surprised when I got sober. What changed with you?

Kevin: 15:53

Oh, so this is the funny thing. I actually, I actually didn't get into recovery on my own. I actually. Was, I, so I didn't actually wanted to admit, I just, it wasn't really that I didn't want to admit, I didn't even think I had an issue, you know, I just thought that, you know, I was drinking so much because I was going through a bad time, and I feel like everyone does that, even normal people, you know, they go through tough times and they drink a lot, you know, you watch, you watch people on TV, you watch reality shows, like, I remember watching an episode of the real house boys in New York city. And I remember this one cast member saying Oh, I'm a widow. My husband, my husband died. And like during that time. Period. When I was grieving, I drank so much and I remember her saying, like, I almost became an alcoholic because I drank so much because of all the pain. And I remember saying to myself, like, that's my story. I relate to that. Like, once, once, like, my family stuff is kind of dealt with, once my emotion stuff is kind of dealt with, like, I'm going to get back into a normal place. I'm going to start drinking normally again. Everything will be okay. And. Obviously, it didn't end up, it didn't end that way and so, you know, I wasn't someone who thought I had an issue, you know, I knew my life was unmanageable, but I didn't think that, you know, I would, I did not think that I was powerless over alcohol, I, so what had brought me to recovery was I had an addictions counselor at the time who I was very, very close to and, you know, I was there to Basically, you know, I mean, it's counseling. I was there to complain, right? But there was a moment where my counselor had said, you know, he was like, you know, you've been here for a very long time. buT you have not tackled your. Alcohol, yeah, you are in addictions counseling, like, are you wanting to talk about your alcohol? Cause, basically, in a sense, he was asking me, like, why are you here if you're not talking about your alcohol, right? But, and so for me, I kind of was just, like, thinking about it, and thinking about it, and thinking about it, and I, all, all I knew in my head was that I wanted to stay in counseling. I didn't want to leave. I needed someone to talk to still. So I was just like, you know what, I'm going to do this. So my, I'm going to make my therapist happy and, you know, I can get him off my back. And so. I basically went because someone had asked me to. I did some, someone suggested and I did it, right? And so that's how I ended up, you know, that's how I ended up in the rooms. And then, you know, I went, so basically I went because someone suggested it and ended up staying because I went and ended up loving it and ended up finding out like, this is actually what I need. Oh, I do relate to these people. I'm in the right place. So miracles.

Steve: 18:32

Excellent. Tell us more about that. What was your early recovery in the rooms? Like,

Kevin: 18:35

Oh. I feel like in the beginning it was kind of easy because, you know, I, you know, there was a sitcom, there was a sitcom called Mom, it was about recovering alcoholics, I feel like everyone's watched that show. You know, I remember watching it, like, just like a regular, like, funny show that I would watch every day. And, like, you know, I remember, you know, I would watch it even when I was, you know, still drinking it, like, A functioning person and, you know, watching that show kind of gave me like, it kind of gave me like a glimpse of this whole world because prior to watching that show, I didn't really know what, you know, addiction was. I didn't really know what recovery was. I didn't know what AA was. I didn't know what like 12 step programs. And so I feel like that show gave me more willingness to actually go. Because had I not know prior what recovery was like, I probably would not have given it a shot, you know, and so, you know, obviously like sitcoms are super funny and they're super like fun and so I'm just like, okay, I guess, you know, maybe, maybe recovering real life. It's like that too. Right. And so that gave me the willingness to be there. And, you know, it was really, I feel it wasn't the worst thing in the world to tell you because I know like a lot of people came in super broken. I trust me, I was too, but I feel like I, Okay. It wasn't the worst situation in the world, because a couple of things. One, I fortunately had a higher power in my life coming into the rooms and coming into recovery. I fortunately had God in my life, and so having that already in my head, I knew for a fact that no matter what I did, no matter where I go, no matter what this was, I would be okay. And everything will work out, you know, I didn't have that fear of like, Oh, I'm going to come into this weird place and be all these weird people. What's going to happen to me, you know, I just knew that everything will be okay, no matter what I did. So fortunately, I had that and. Also, I had to, you know, it was the one, it was the one moment where I really had to force myself to drop my sword in terms of how well I knew the world and how well I knew my life because hearing people, hearing people who had more time than me, hearing people that had been in the ruins for a very, very long time and had more sobriety time than me, you know, you really do learn that Oh my gosh, like, these people are actually functioning. I'm not functioning. I'm here, day one, and no alcohol. I have no, I'm not functioning. I don't know anything. I'm a loser, basically, compared to all these people. And so, I have to force myself to tumble and say, you know what? I don't, I have to force myself to listen, to listen to these people and hear what they have to say. That's so hard, because you think you know everything. You think that, like, You know, I'm in charge of my life. Yo, fuck all these people who tell me what to do with my life, you know, all this stuff. And so I have to, you know, it was a good, that it was really interesting. But I feel like that was what the two things that I really thought about my early times in the rooms, like when I first came in.

Steve: 21:37

I love all that, especially that turn of phrase of drop the sword. Would you mind sharing a little bit more about What that experience was like and kind of identifying that you might've been carrying that sword and you needed to drop it.

Kevin: 21:48

Oh, yeah. I think like it's, because for me, like I have most people, like most of us, like I have a lot of trauma in the back of my, in the back of my shoulders, right? Like I carry it with me everywhere and a lot of things have not been dealt and a lot of things have not been dealt with. And as a result of it, I have a lot of trust issues. I don't trust very easily. I Refuse to be vulnerable. I refuse to look weak and I did all that and as you know, and as a coping mechanism I had a constant sort out and I was like I can do this on my own get away from me I need to protect myself. Like, that was always my mentality. I was always in survival mode, because like most of us that was just how I lived life. And so coming into a place in recovery with that mentality, that didn't really fly, right? Because, had I kept holding my sword, I would not grow. I would not be in the place where I am now. And I feel like, being in recovery for Almost two years now, I learned that every person who comes in that's new has that mentality, right? And it starts off that way, and they never will not progress unless they just learn to drop it. And it takes a while, right, to come in, and I recognize that now. But, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that it completely dropped 1000 percent as I came in and as I progressed in recovery, I feel like I still had it, but it was like cut in half, it wasn't as sharp as it was when I, like, walked through the doors because, you know, people are still people, you know, they'll say things that you don't agree with, they'll say things that maybe get under your skin, they'll say things that maybe offend you, and so when that being said, like, I always, like, I still had feelings, I still felt like, oh my gosh, this happened, and so, When things happen, my sword always came out like as like a protection. So, I think the good thing is that I learned how to do it in a more constructive way. You know, it comes out when it needs to come out when it doesn't need to come out. And then when I need to learn, okay, I need to drop it because I need to learn. It's okay. This person is safe. If this person is nice, I can drop it, you know, and it was like, that is a total like. Experience that it's not something that you can learn in one day. It's not something that you can learn and like very, very fast. It like takes, especially if you're a very, very guarded person like me, like it takes a takes quite a while to rewire your brain, you know, and I feel like that's something recovery really does for you. It's like it's you learn slowly that life doesn't always have to be the way that you want it that you always lived it. It can change for the better. And now I can say now that live. I don't live life as harshly as anyone. Yeah.

Steve: 24:40

Yeah, that's great. having that sword down gives you a chance where you can do so much more with your hands.

Kevin: 24:46

not only that, like, I feel like dropping your sword also, like, it gives you the opportunity to learn, right? because, if my head is far Up my ass all the time and like thinking I know everything I didn't want to and I always push myself away from people It's like I'm never gonna learn. It's like I'm never gonna get forward. I'm not I'm gonna get well, and so I just had to really Learned that from me, that if I really wanted to get better and I really wanted to progress in life and in recovery, I had no choice but to put, to just shut up and just listen.

Steve: 25:18

Yeah, and one thing I've recently learned in recovery is that you also will have to learn the same thing that you might already know deep down a couple different times. because the lessons that I learned in my first year, in my second year, some of them, like I forgot around, as time went on and I had to like relearn them. How would you say your sobriety has changed the past year and a half, almost two years?

Kevin: 25:41

Oh, I actually grow really, really fast and I'm shocked that it is. And before I answer that question, I just want to I just want to talk about what you said before this I actually, no, I totally, totally agree and I feel like amnesia is like a very common thing in terms of recovery because, you know, you're so right because there's so many things that I've learned in my first year and like that I completely forgot, right? And sometimes I get mad at myself. It's like, How did I forget that? It's like life, like life had been so much easier if I just remember. It's like, it's like, it's like when you're well and you're better and then you kind of forgot what it was like to be unwell and you forgot what the shit, what your crazy, unmanageable, crappy life was like. I don't wanna go back to that place, but how my life has changed. So I'm so so happy,, and like the thing is, if I'm being honest, something that I'm actually struggling with right now is being able to look at my life in early recovery with sober lenses. Because, like, when I mean by silver lenses, it's like, you know, I had silver lenses when I, when I was in my early days, because I, you know, wasn't drinking, but I had a lot of stuff going on, you know what I mean? I had a lot of, like, mental, like, stuff, and it was, like, very, very heavy, and obviously in your first year, like, that's all, that's all it's about. You're just trying to manage the emotion, trying to learn how to stop, right? But now, it's a lot differently, because I'm not learning how to not drink. I know how to do that right and now it's just dealing with everything else and giving and having that freedom. I'm looking, it gives me the ability to look at life previously what it was like and see everything that I've done. Right, because in the moment, during my first year there are moments where like, ah, I guess I was like, I'm like this because this way and I say this because of this. And I'm so sorry, I remember, so I know what I'm doing, and then sitting here, looking back, I'm like What the heck was that? Why did I say that? Why did I behave this way? You know, and so something I'm struggling with right now is just looking back at the stuff that I said, the stuff that I did in my first year and I guess like just questioning why I did it because it wasn't really, you know, I'm not saying like I did anything crazy. I just like these little things that I was just like, you know, I, I, I wasn't really smart. They're saying that or doing that. And I guess the difference is that now I'm more clear, you know, I'm more. And not only that, but I'm able to be more aware, you know, I've always had self awareness like even my first year, but I just feel like I had self awareness, but just things were just coming out. And I wasn't really thinking, you know, there's a, there's a saying that let's live by it, think more, think more talkable. I'm not really doing that. I was thinking, thinking a lot and talking a lot at the same time. Right. And so this year, I feel like now. I'm able to be more human. It makes any sense. It's like, I'm not, I'm not like when I'm a newcomer, I'm a loose cannon. I say things, I feel things. I see newcomers all the time. I see people struggling and they say crazy shit. And you're like, what the heck did you just say that for her? Right. I was that person. And now I'm not that person. Right. I can think before I speak, I can see what's happening. I can be aware of my surroundings. I can see people for who they are. I can see situations for who, for what they are. And I think. That is just a huge, huge gift because it shows me that I'm finally, finally functioning like a real person again, right? And it's like, not only that, but I can function like a real person without booze. And without other substances too, so, yeah.

Steve: 29:37

Yeah, you are not just functioning, you are thriving. I love it. Thank you. I would also have to add, yeah, just to be kind to yourself. As someone who, anyone of my listeners can scroll down 174 episodes and hear what my thoughts were when I was counting days, which is wild how, if I listen back to some of those early episodes on my day counting thoughts compared to what it's like now, so. Yeah, I can definitely relate to having a record of what it was like back then. Anyone can access

Kevin: 30:04

it. It's so, it's, it's so, so bad. I wish, I wish, like, I had, I wish I had, like, A hologram of my old self and just beat the shit out of it because I'm just like, what were you think Yeah. No, you need to give it a hug yourself. Is this okay? Okay. Thank you, I'm hard on myself. Can't you tell

Steve: 30:22

I, I can tell. Well, you know, with that, what advice would you give to someone else who was hard on themselves in early recovery?

Kevin: 30:29

I'm still learning that myself. I think just hmm, that's actually a really good question. And I know that, I feel like I know the answer, but just coming up with ways to say it. I think, honestly, I feel like the one thing that I can say is just progress, not perfection. Because, listen, you can tell yourself, be nice to yourself a hundred different ways, a hundred different languages and other ways, but we're still not going to get it. Especially if you're used to being hard on yourself, right? And so, just recognizing that you don't have to get it right the first time, you can still be hard on yourself, but just know that one day you can get there, and one day you can be nice to yourself, right? But I think just practicing once a day, and just recognizing when you are. being hard on yourself and not showing yourself grace. And because when you recognize it, you can see what's happening. When you can see what's happening, then you can apply the solution and say, okay, I see what's happening right here. I'm not going to do that because they always do that in the past. And so, yeah, just having, just having self awareness and just being, just remember that. Like most things in the world, it's like you have your whole lifetime to learn how to be nice to yourself. You have a whole lifetime to learn how to solve all of your defects.

Steve: 31:47

Wonderful. Well, thank you for that. Now I can turn it into an audiogram. So next time you're mean to yourself, you can hear it from your own voice.

Kevin: 31:54

Ha! Exactly. I'll haunt myself, which I need.

Steve: 31:58

Excellent. And any final drops of wisdom for our listeners

Kevin: 32:01

yes, actually I have a couple of things if you don't mind me sharing. Go for it. To kind of add on to what your previous question was in terms of like people who are struggling because I get that, you know, I get people, I get people struggling all the time and I think like something that I could pass on to them is, Which anyone who could be is that a, just like I said before, it's like having self awareness would save you so much grief and so much heartache because listen, learning how to not drink, learning how to not use drugs, that Is a struggle and that is what recovery is about but that will always come if you decide to stay and you decide to keep going no matter how many times you fall, but having self awareness that's not going to, that's not going to come easy unless you, you know, Unless you just try, you know, it's like getting sober. It's like that will always, you'll, you'll learn how to get there eventually. Right. Like everyone's able to do that no matter what, but not everyone can be self aware and just having that skill can really save you because I, I can, I can't tell you how many times that I've self awareness has gotten me into so many awful situations and prevented so many awful situations from happening because, you know, it prevented me from, you know. lashing out at people or preventing me from, you know, doing things that I, I would have regretted or doing something that would have made amends for it. Like, it's just like, it just saves you so, so much. And it's like, it's like, that's just one of the greatest, that's like one of the greatest gifts to yourself. And just, you know, Learning and also learning how to not take learning how to not hand kill all your demons at once, you know I have and this was me in my early recovery, too It's like I had so many issues going on But I knew but I know now that dealing all of them all at once It's not gonna get you anywhere because all that does is just make your life so much more manageable so much more Awful, it's like fine If you have a mountain of issues, find the one thing that's the most important that you could deal with. Whatever can wait till tomorrow, deal with it for tomorrow. Deal with one thing and do it really well, then move on to the next thing, right? And, and also, I feel like, my last, I feel like something else I could say is, you know, no matter what, just, you know, just stay. If you are, you know, just stay if you are in recovery. And no matter how hard it is, don't give, don't give up before the miracle. Don't leave before the miracle as the slogan says, I don't like, I hate that I'm talking like this'cause I sound like a bumper sticker or like a Hallmark card, but But sometimes these things actually work. And I think like, two more things that I do wanna say that's actually important that I live, that I live by is, you know, I, you know, I had a so I had. Sorry, I had a brain fart. I had a friend who took 13 years sober just last Sunday. And, you know, she had said that, you know, try this for a year. You know, to anyone that's new, try this for a year. And if you're not satisfied, your trauma is easily refundable. Those are her words, and I love that. Right? So. Yeah, I was

Steve: 35:30

just gonna add, We have someone in my meetings who always says, you know, if you're not happy, we'll refund your misery.

Kevin: 35:36

Yeah, I love that. I just thought, yeah, I heard that. I'm just a guy is genius. I will use that too. Right. Yeah, because you because you don't know what you're getting into. Right. And it's a very scary thing. And I think like, just try and just see how you like it. It's good. It's you don't have to stay. No one's holding you captive to right and so try it out if you don't know. And also, there is the most important thing is that there's always more than one thing to do anything, and that includes being sober and recovery, because, you know, we all preach 12 step programs, we all preach like meetings and all this stuff, but, you know, there's always, you know, I had a friend, you know, I have a friend who unfortunately passed away yesterday, yesterday morning, and She from old age, not overdose but she was nine, you know, she was 93, 92 around that, you know, years old. And she al she had almost 50 years sobriety with no 12 step program. You know, no aa, no meetings, just god in church. Right. And so there's always other ways to do it, you know, and I have so many, you know, and I have so many other friends who have tried programs like this. And it didn't work out and then they ended up leaving, but they're still sober today, you know, so there's always so there's always like other ways to do this. So, if you had find that, you know, trying meetings and trying Tulsa programs and doing all this stuff doesn't really work for you like there are other ways. So you just have to try to find out what works for you. You just try to find out what works for you because at the end of the day like this is like a self diagnosed disease, right? This is the one thing that you can go on the internet and google your illness and say that you have it like it's the one time we're allowed to do that, right? I don't recommend for any other illnesses, but alcoholism you can do that, right? And, and also it's like reminding ourselves because on our chips, you know, our, on our chips and medallions, it says thy own self be true, right? And just really recognizing and really applying that to your life, like doing what is best for you. Because it is your life and your recovery. You do what's best for you because You need to do what makes you happy.

Steve: 37:54

Wonderful way to close out then. And if someone wanted to follow you on the Insta or online, how would they find you?

Kevin: 38:02

Ah, I think, you know, I'm not really, I feel like my only social outlet is Instagram, so I feel like if you like what I said or you like want to follow more, I think you can just find on me on Instagram. I think it's funny if funny how have to think. It's funny how I have to think about this. Kev, K E V dot Chang, C H I N G. Yeah, that's my handle. I will

Steve: 38:23

be sure to include it in the show notes. That is my favorite social media platform as well. I know that anything I post on the GAY A Instagram also winds up on Facebook. But do I go on their Facebook? No. Sorry to those who comment there. Instagram is definitely where I am most active.

Kevin: 38:41

Same. And by the way, I love Facebook. You know why? Because everyone in my recovery family is in. Every one of my card families on Facebook, so I gotta do both now

Steve: 38:51

All right well Listeners and make sure you follow Kevin and follow us while you're at it at gay a podcast and for more time with Kevin and me head on over the patreon page where we're gonna talk about gratitude and follow us wherever you're listening So you can get new episodes when they come out every Thursday And if you have a friend or a fellow who might enjoy listening tell them about us until next time stay sober friends