gAy A: The Super Soberhero Show

Acceptance ft. Mark

February 02, 2023 Steve Bennet-Martin Season 1 Episode 123
gAy A: The Super Soberhero Show
Acceptance ft. Mark
Show Notes Transcript

Steve welcomes back Mark to discuss our issues dealing with accepting ourselves, our sexuality, our addictions, and how we are working to overcome these issues and learn to accept ourselves authentically.

Thank you for listening. Please join our Patreon family for the post-show, along with more exclusive content at www.Patreon.com/gAyApodcast

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If you are interested in sharing your story, getting involved with the show, or just saying hi, please e-mail me at gayapodcast@gmail.com

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Steve:

Hi everyone and welcome to Gay a, a podcast about sobriety for the LGBT plus community and our allies. I'm your host, Steve Bennet-martin, I am an alcoholic and I am grateful for the opportunity to serve G GSM as program co-chair. As of this recording, I am 596 days sober, and today we're welcoming back friend of the podcast Mark to talk about acceptance. Welcome back. Thank you. Thank you

Mark:

for having me back. I'm happy to be here.

Steve:

Yes. Now many listeners will remember you back from our conversation when we got to know you a little bit better back in August, but why don't you reintroduce yourself to maybe new people?

Mark:

Sure. So my name is Mark. I am an addict and an alcoholic, and I just recently, back in November, celebrated 17 years of sobriety. I live in the New York City metropolitan area and I attend meetings mostly in New York City, even though I live just on the outskirts on the Jersey side. Oh. Yeah, I have a sponsor who has a sponsor. I have Sponsee. Who have Spons and all that other good

Steve:

stuff. Excellent. Yes. And what's been new in your life since we last talked in August?

Mark:

So I believe when we talked in August, I had either just accepted a new job or was just starting a new job or was looking for a new job. So I've been in that job now since August 15th. Mm-hmm. As I also stated, I just celebrated my 17 year anniversary back in November. I dated mm-hmm. didn't go the way I hoped it would but I, at least I tried. Right. Yeah. You know, and it, it's, it, there's been a lot of sort of internal shifts and shifts in thinking with this change of, of my job. You know, it's given me an opportunity and, and with the relationship not working out, you know, like I always find it interesting that every time you encounter some sort of an event, whether it be something positive or something negative in sobriety, it tends to sort of lead to. I think we're programmed to sort of think through and, you know, prior to getting sober it would've just been like irrational overthinking and anxiety. But like in sobriety, it's like a slow trickle of idea revelation. Discovery.

Steve:

Yeah. Excellent. And when we talked about having you back on, you kind of listed out a couple of the things that have been on your mind lately. In my opinion, it kind of summarize with the idea of acceptance. Why do you feel like talking about struggling with feeling accepted and accepting ourselves is, you know, a good topic to talk about? Well, for

Mark:

me and for a lot of addicts and alcoholics that I know and have worked with a big for, for me, Feeling accepted and feeling part of, or not feeling accepted or not feeling part of was a huge piece of my discovery and step work. Right. So like when I got to the why or what the feelings were after doing a fourth step, you know, and overall the years tracing things back to like, you know, wanting to fit in mm-hmm. know, and that is an A level of acceptance, right? Of myself, of my character defects. So like I've learned this acceptance piece here in the program. I did not understand what that meant before. Right. You know? Yeah. Like it just wasn't a thing, you know? And I've been doing a lot of thinking with this career change about, you know, what has acceptance from other people of me looked like and what has acceptance of who I am, look what, what does that acceptance of myself look like to me? Yeah. You know? And I guess it's not something I've really thought about at such a deep level before.

Steve:

Yeah. Certainly. I know that back when I was, you know, drinking, I didn't. Part of it was because I feel like I was never accepted. I didn't accept myself, like acceptance wasn't part of my equation at all and I had no idea how to get there. And so this was cer certainly something that when you brought it up as a topic, I was like, let's dive into it cuz there's something for me to process or digest and work through as we talk through this as well.

Mark:

Yeah. I mean, like, if I think back, it's like in grammar school, like I wanted everybody's acceptance. So like I behaved a certain way, right? Mm-hmm. like in my family, I wanted acceptance, so I behaved a certain way. You know, when I started going. out and dating, like, you know, I, I, I think I heard this at a meeting once. It was like, whatever you're into, I'm into it. Mm-hmm. right? Yeah. But like, I think there's something about acceptance that leads us to our most genuine self. Mm-hmm. which for many of us, and I'll speak for myself, being of a certain age and growing up through the seventies, eighties, and 90, like what an acceptance looks like to a young gay person today is very different than the acceptance journey that you know. I went through.

Steve:

Yeah. I mean, even for me being born in the, the late eighties, I remember my first memories, you know, being told to like tone her down or not be as feminine, or not be as flamboyant. And I just feel like that's something that a lot of L G B T individuals like struggle with is like right from the get-go. They feel like they're not accepted for who they are. I mean, what were your experiences like with that growing up in terms of not feeling okay in your own skin?

Mark:

Right, so, I'm the youngest of eight. Mm-hmm. I have two older brothers, five sisters, then myself. So I played with a lot of girls and girl things and I never questioned that and I don't think my. mother did. My dad was out working a lot, so my mother was really the most hands-on in the, in the house. And I would say from the ages of like one to five, there was no like limitation on that. Like I was playing with the Barbies or my sister had a Farrah faucet doll. It was amazing. Mm-hmm. Or like my grandmother would give my mother all this costume jewelry to donate to like the school bazaar. And I would like dig through the bag and pull out like, the dangle clip on earrings and just, you know, p prance around or wear my sister's shoes. And then it was like, oh, now he's going to kindergarten. We need to make him stop. Mm-hmm. And they didn't understand why it had been okay for this period of time, and all of a sudden it was like, well, you're going out into the world now and you need to. So it was like accepted and then taken back, right? Mm-hmm. And then like the, the progression is sort of going out into the world and finding out that I was short. Hmm. Which I didn't know because everybody in my family was short, so I only knew that and acquired shame around that because other people made a point of it. Mm-hmm. the same with any effeminate characteristics. I thought they were just, it was just me. Like I, I've had them since I was little. Yeah. Right. Like I was born with them and it was just who I was. And why was that being picked up on as something I could not embrace? Mm-hmm. Right. So like, it, it's, it's, those are the two biggest ones for me. And you know, when I share in meetings, I always say like, I didn't know I was short until I went out in the world and people made fun of me. You know, or, or, or whatnot. And it would've just been like, it would've been so much easier, right? Like if it had just been allowed and nurtured. it's this built in questioning of self. Mm-hmm. right? Like, what am I doing wrong? Why is who I am wrong? And like, I literally carried that in through my whole life. And I think when I, I reached out to you to talk about this, it was because like I'm having this revelation that there are still clinging on. You know? Yeah. From, from the, it's like a dingle berry of distress, I know that's not exactly a lovely example, but you know, like it, it, I'm 52 years old and that shit from being five still exists somewhere in my psyche. Yeah,

Steve:

no, and I, I can relate to that. I mean, especially. you know, in recovery I've, in working the steps I had to like look at a lot of stuff that I was like, oh. I told myself when I was like 18 that I was over anything bad that possibly happened to me from like age one through 17. I was like, I'm 18, it's a fresh, like, like goodbye. And I was like, no. Like a lot of that childhood trauma, like the religious trauma, like a lot of, all of that, like stuck a lot more than I let myself believe, as you know, as I was getting. but I mean, even

Mark:

I, I referred to it to my therapist, which thank God for therapy, right? Mm-hmm. like to be somebody who has the, the beauty of a program of 12 steps. Mm-hmm. and therapy. It's like Hallelujah. Wears has been all my life. It's kind of subliminal. Mm-hmm. right though, like they're not the first thought. So like, my first thought might be, oh, I hope he likes me. But somewhere in the. in an, in an, it's on mute, but it's still playing. Mm-hmm. you. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like you're trying to, like a visceral example, like if you have the TV on mute, but it's still playing, you're still absorbing the message. Mm-hmm. so those messages are still in there somewhere. Yeah. They're kind of buzzing under all the predominant thoughts. I'm noticing them so much faster now. Mm-hmm. and going, oh shit, I just did that again.

Steve:

Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like you can hear that buzzing a lot more now that you have that clearer head and you're not using substances to kind of drown out that buzz. Well, that's why

Mark:

I used, yeah. Exactly, because the volume wasn't on mute back then.

Steve:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I know while periods of feeling accepted come and go. When's the first time or experience you really felt accepted as gay?

Mark:

Genuinely accepted or like, I have arrived because when I was high, I thought I had arrived many times. Yeah. you know, and that was there. and I can't, so I just bought a T-shirt that says in French, I regret nothing. Mm-hmm. And I think about those things, right? Because like those were real feelings, even if they were fueled by the experiences were fueled by a substance, right? Mm-hmm. you know? And one of the things I learned when I did rehab many moons ago was like, anything you experienced. Feeling wise, or if you felt brave, or if you felt happy, or if you felt excited, or if you felt you know, anything positive, it meant that those things really were in you to be mm-hmm. but at that time, you couldn't get past your own mind, right? So that the drugs quieted that down. So the idea of that was to remind you that you have these. Yeah. And I now use program to get past not wanting to let them come out. Right. But I would say it was probably after I got sober mm-hmm. so not until almost 35. Yeah. Right. Where I fully felt accepted as gay. I knew that I had made so much progress with my family. When my dad said to me while I was driving my parents to the racetrack for one, I don't, I think it was my birthday, they were taking me to the racetrack and to dinner. And my father was like, I hope you find yourself a nice, rich guy someday, And I remember just like feeling like this wave of like, happiness come over me. because for him, you know, even though it was like I, he put his hand on my shoulder after, you know, offering me$25,000 to marry a woman. Mm-hmm. and I was like, no. You know, I love you no matter what. But he actually struggled to get there. Mm-hmm. Right. And when I was high in using the easiest thing for him to blame for. Was my lifestyle. Mm-hmm. And that's because I had unscrupulously tied those two things together. Right. My identity as a gay man with drug use. Yeah. And, you know, coming out in sobriety and you. Sort of finally, even though I was still really uncomfortable, I'm not gonna lie, the first time I walked into a nighttime crystal meth anonymous meeting in Manhattan, I was like, oh my God, these are all the people who wouldn't sleep with me. you know, like, and every, they don't want me here. All that kind of stuff was playing in my head, right. It made it really difficult for me to make those connections at that time. But you know, I think that, and I know we're gonna dive into this probably a little bit later, you know, but there are things that pulled it away. Mm-hmm. over the years, you know, so I would say it has been a roller coaster of acceptance of my sexuality. and like I finally feel excited to get off the rollercoaster and on sort of like the ascent of the mountain.

Steve:

Yeah. And you know, speaking about like how your sexuality and addictions kind of went hand in hand. I mean, let's talk a little bit more about like when, I'm sure you had issues accepting that you were having an issue with substances. Like when did that kind of break through?

Mark:

So the end of my last run my family pretty much stepped in and stopped co-signing my bullshit, right? Mm-hmm. My parents. I, so I had a whole, a whole other life living in San Francisco for two years. I came back, a shell of myself, never dealt with what was really going on out there. And then stayed dry for a. and the minute I went back online and somebody offered me drugs in my head I was like, I'm gonna draw these parameters and boundaries and I'm gonna do it right this time. Which led to like two years of on and off binge using, mm-hmm. Getting caught with my family. You know, I was living at my parents' house and kind of getting away without really having to deal with it. Which at the time I was. They had two older sons go through this. Like I know they know. Yeah. But my parents were also smart enough to know from those experiences that I had to get to the bottom myself. Right. Yeah. So long story short, it was a conversation where it was like, My parents were away, but they sent my brother over to be like, I'm here to take the car keys and if you don't agree to go to rehab, I'm supposed to throw you out of the house. Mm-hmm. Right. And I reluctantly was like, okay, I guess this is what I've gotta do, but I don't think the actual acceptance sunk in until the first night of rehab. Mm-hmm. When I heard my first AA speaker that was brought in, you know, I was like, how dare they bring this person in to tell my story, Yeah. Because prior to that meeting I was like, I could just stay here for a few days, check myself out and go to my dealer's house, you know? And like that night I think was a bigger part of surrender for me. Mm-hmm. where I was like, I've gotta do something different here.

Steve:

Yeah. And how has that, like how has life changed or gotten better? Like after accepting that you were like an alcoholic and had issues with drugs?

Mark:

I mean, I can't even describe all the ways that the last 17 years have been better, but like, I'm, I'm free. Mm-hmm. right? I'm free to feel the feelings. I'm free to build the relationships. I'm free to build a. I'm free to gain a greater understanding of myself and others. I mean, the things that I, the things I've been able to accomplish, like becoming a teacher, getting my teaching certifications, going back and getting a master's, getting a, an advanced degree, working on my PhD, becoming a principal, like all of those things are things that could never have happened. without that acceptance, but they also never could have happened unless I actually dug in and did the work. Right? Yeah. Like I don't get this by sitting in a chair through osmosis. Like it does not seep into my ass when I sit in an AA or a C M A meeting. Mm-hmm. like I actually have to do the. you know, and I was really blessed to have an amazing first sponsor who could tell that I needed to slow the, the speed of my, my slow, my thoughts down to the speed of a pen. Mm-hmm. and threw me down the steps and stayed with me the whole way down. Right. Until it became. An upward staircase, right? Because as we do those steps, you know, each time we gain a better understanding of ourselves like that. I literally think every human could benefit from two and 12 steps.

Steve:

Yeah. I thought that as well. I'm just like, there are people in my life we all know who we're talking about. Yes, exactly. Now, even working the program and being sober, you know, that doesn't mean that automatically acceptance comes and stays forever and ever. I mean, have you had. have any experiences in recovery where you've had to change or hide a part of yourself to feel like you were accepted?

Mark:

Yes. And it had nothing to do with recovery. Mm-hmm. So when I got out of when I first came out of rehab and was just adjusting to the world and going to meetings, I was working as a waiter, not in a cocktail bar. And doing real. and I really hated both of those things. Mm-hmm. with a passion. Yeah. And I had to stop going to school for my teaching certificate to go to rehab. I had to drop out, so I became, I, I began teaching my second year of sobriety after my first full year of sobriety. And then my second year through write, I got a job teaching in a Catholic school. Mm-hmm. Catholic church and Catholic organizations in this country in particular still will fire people for being gay. Hmm. I was very lucky to be hired by two of the most amazing nu. I had ever met in my entire life, one who has passed away and one who I still talk to very regularly who I felt comfortable telling them that I was gay, that I was in recovery, and they embraced every part of that for me. Mm-hmm. So it took away that fear of being fired. I kept a, a, a firm line between students and parents and my private life. Mm-hmm. which I would've done anywhere. Right? Yeah. And then eight, seven years later, I got an opportunity to become the principal of a Catholic school, which was an amazing experience. But when I arrived, there were two in particular parents. were sort of on a just a really mean adventure to try to not have me become the principal. Mm-hmm. And one of the things I thought I had locked down all my social media as well as I could, but apparently they were able to see a picture of me in a Speedo on the beach in Fire Island. And we're trying to make all sorts of hoopla about it and make People think that I was gay, right? Mm-hmm. get rid of me. It never went anywhere. It never took traction because once I went and met all the families, they were like, this guy's amazing. Phenomenal, great, but there's always, there was always that whole eight years, there was this in the back of my head, like, is this the parent I'm gonna piss off? Is this the employee that I'm gonna have to let. is this the kid that is gonna dig around because I got them in trouble and get me fired? Like that was always in the back of my head based on that very first experience with those two women, right? Mm-hmm. And then through the pandemic and working with my therapist, a lot of my work was turning around to like being my most genuine self, right? Mm-hmm. Post Covid. The parents that were coming into our school were much younger and much hipper, and were like, so we gotta find you a sugar daddy. And I'm like, we're not having this conversation here. Yeah. So it was this combination of like, people are more comfortable and accepting right now, which could get me in trouble. Mm-hmm. And do I wanna keep one foot in the closet for this job? Mm. So like the trajectory becomes my first, you know, 20 something years living with my family and having to keep part of me hidden right into moving out immediately becoming an alcoholic, which hid parts of me. Mm-hmm. and going from alcoholism into full fledged drug addiction, which again hid parts of me from other people. into sobriety and getting like this small experience of being able to almost be all of me to seven years of Catholic school le eight years of Catholic school leadership, where there was always a piece of me that was worried about being all of me to now, since August in this new job, which is in the public sector. Like, I'm still an administrator, but like nobody cares if I have tattoos. I can wear a fucking gay flag on my, my shirt or, or whatever. Like nobody cares. It's actually embraced and that has led to this, like I'm 52 years old and I don't know if I understand my full gay, genuine self. Mm-hmm. you know, like. everybody goes through stuff like that. But to really understand that like this is the first time I've been fully free from having to hide anything. Yeah. And what's that been like? It's scary. but it's exciting because it's like I get to figure out so many things, but then it's also. but I'm like 52. Mm-hmm. and then those voices creep in, right? Yeah. Those voices of you're too short, you're too feminine. From early in my life are now becoming like, oh, this is, I'm 52 years old. I can't hang with these young people, Mm-hmm. and figure this out. But it's like I have to find places where I, you know, a friend of mine said to me, If you walk into a place and don't feel welcome, that's not the place. Yeah. Right. So it is this weird combination of like, part of me is like, I feel a little too old to be having this discovery journey right now. Mm-hmm. but like, fuck it, I'm having this discovery journey right now. Yeah. Yeah. Go for it. That's

Steve:

amazing. No, it certainly is amazing and like when you have those like voices that creep in or that like built in forgetter, that makes you doubt yourself. Like how do you keep yourself on track or get yourself back to where you're in a good place?

Mark:

I am here to tell you that your thinking is still as broken as you allow it to be. No matter how many years of sobriety you have, mm-hmm. and that's when I know I have to reach out, talk to friends, surround myself with like-minded, sober people stay connected to my program. I'm gonna be reaching out to my sponsor to. you know, I think this is a great time for me to do the steps again. Mm-hmm. you know, maybe in a different light, like I know that the New York's c m a organization has just published an actual crystal meth workbook. Mm-hmm. So maybe do it that way. You know, where I've done all my steps through the aa big book, every time I've done them you know, maybe I need a new sponsee. You know, like ways that I can be of service, like I've literally changed my entire schedule to facilitate going from work to something, to a meeting. Mm-hmm. you know, like I spoke to my therapist and was like, I need to, I need to be seeing you in person, not on Zoom. Yeah. And I would like to do it on this night because there's a meeting directly after that would happen. Mm-hmm. So, you know, and then I've set up my tutoring on days to tutor somebody right after school and go straight to a meeting. So like, it, it's when you have these sort of, I guess, revelations mm-hmm. It's what you do with them. and when that built in for Forgetter kicks in, or your icks, or your isms or your shortcomings, or you know, instead of wrapping myself up in them, like they're a blanket and isolating. Cause you know, that's what I do. You know, it's about like taking action. Nobody gots sober by sitting anywhere. Yeah,

Steve:

I love that. Yeah. And any last thoughts or bits of advice on accepting yourself?

Mark:

Listen, it's, it's a journey. Mm-hmm. and there are gonna be times where your acceptance levels are really high and there are ex times when your acceptance level are gonna be really low. Mm-hmm. And it's what you do with those lows that makes all the difference, because you can turn those lows into highs. By furthering the journey, you know, and whether you do that through step work, through therapy, through conversations with like-minded people just get on the journey, you know? That's, that's what I say, don't be afraid. Get on the journey.

Steve:

Wonderful. Excellent. And h how can our listeners find you if they wanted to thank you

Mark:

or reach? Sure I'm on Instagram as, hey, Marco, eight h e y m a r k o. And then the number eight, which stands for being the eighth child in my family.

Steve:

Excellent. I'll be sure to include that in the show notes. Thank you so much and stick around. Mark. We're gonna talk about confidence in the post show. Ooh, yes, and listeners, you can head on over to our Patreon page and join the family today to hear that and exclusive post shows for every episode of gay podcast at patreon.com/gay podcast. And if you're interested in sharing your story, getting involved, or just saying hi, I'm an email away@gapodcastgmail.com. So be sure to follow us wherever you're listening so you can get new episodes when they come out every Thursday. And until that time, stay sober.

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