Discovering Your Gender in Recovery ft. Chris

Steve welcomes back friend of the podcast, Chris, to talk about their experiences with gender in recovery, as well as navigating our queer community sober.

Interested in more details on the Spring Clearance Roundup check out their Instagram @springclearance 

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Until next time, stay sober, friends!

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Transcript

Steve: 0:55

Hi everyone and welcome to Gay a, a podcast about sobriety for the LGBT plus community and our allies. I'm your host, Steve Bennett. Martin, I am an alcoholic. I am grateful for all the great topic episodes I have planned for the coming months. As of this recording, I am 626 days sober, and today we're welcoming back friend of the podcast, Chris, to talk about discovering your gender in recovery. Welcome back.

Chris: 1:20

Hi, Hey, how

Steve: 1:23

are you? Good. For listeners that don't already know you, I definitely recommend going back to the episode that we did last June, but why don't you tell us what you've been up to since then?

Chris: 1:33

So much has happened since then. Since June. Wow. I so much has happened. I. got out of her three year relationship, which was really difficult. I took a step back from school which was also really difficult. I was just spreading myself a little bit too thin. I'm doing some upper levels of service, and they just were requiring more time and I wasn't able to show up to all of the things that I really wanted to do really well. So it was like, let me just take a step back from school. I can readdress it once these other things are done. And yeah, you know, I'm. Chair of server retreat that happens at the end of April. And we are like in the thick of planning. We will have our first big fundraiser in a couple of weeks and registration will open for that. And, you know, I'm just that's been my main focus for the last six months really. So I'm excited to, to be doing that.

Steve: 2:22

Excellent. Well, this episode should be launching late March to early April. Did you wanna plug it real quick before we.

Chris: 2:28

Yeah. So spring clearance, we'll be celebrating our 20th year this year. It is a fairly small retreat that happens in Litchfield County, Connecticut. It's about 190 folks who come up. So if you're in the tri-state area or really anywhere and you want to come you can go to our Instagram spring clearance it's spring clearance, or to our website, spring clearance.org.

Steve: 2:48

Excellent. I'll be sure to link those over to the show note. Just in case anyone listening is looking for some fellowship in the. And out of all the things you could come back to discuss, why did you choose to discuss the topic of gender?

Chris: 3:00

Oh gosh. Because I think, it has been the thing that has been as I spend more time here, so like as of this recording, I have 2,757 days of recovery. It's like a little over seven and a half years. and. you know, this work never stops, right? And as you continue to do the steps and you continue to do work, you're discovering new things about yourself or rediscovering things as, as the case may be in my case. And, you know, gender has been one of those things that I've always struggled with. I'm gonna put in air quotes. But it has definitely been a huge reason as to why I used for many years. Mm-hmm. And I felt like for me, it would be important for me to talk about it at this level. I think that one of the things I've learned in sobriety is like, the more I talk about it, the less it has power and I might be able to help someone else. So like, if I can kill two birds with one stone, let's do it.

Steve: 3:55

Yeah. That's excellent. And I'm looking forward to, to diving more into it because I, I feel like I've learned more about gender and just like the. How it's not all, as all black and white as I thought it was, like in recovery and like in the rooms. And so I'm excited to kind of dive deeper. Going back like what was, was your relationship with gender growing up like?

Chris: 4:12

Well I was really effeminate growing up and you know, I was, it was one of the things that kids noticed about me first, you know, it was like, first I was black and then I was really effeminate and so you know, it really wasn't a problem. I had girlfriends in elementary school. It was fine. I got teased, but then I got like really fucking smart and I got really witty and I like got really cutting until like, I stopped getting picked on because it was like I could just cut you down with my words really easily. And I also learned how to fight, right? And so then it really wasn't an issue. But then I started to train to be a professional dancer and. then it sort of became a problem, not a problem, but it was sort of, it was suggested that if I wanted to be successful in my career, I had to dance like a boy. I had to be a man. And dancing was one of those things that really saved me. And so I did what I was instructed, you know, I butched it up. Mm-hmm. And, and also just for safety, you know Yeah, I just wanted to be safe and when I came to school in a full face of makeup and acrylic meals and, and women's clothing and long hair, like I was never safe, you know? Mm-hmm. and. After a while, I just got tired of fighting, and so I was like, let me just make my life easier, and I butched it up and I was safe and I was able to focus on my studies and my dancing and things like that, but I was denying a huge part of myself. And so when I picked up, it made that easier, you know, it made it easier for me to deal with the shame of like denying a part of myself to the world and things like that, so, yeah.

Steve: 5:55

Yeah, and I mean, I, I, yeah, I remember like, I had a similar experience growing up where like, I was picked on cuz it was clear like people knew I was gay before, like I knew I was gay or a feminate like that. I was like different. And it was just like whether that difference in this, like hadn't aim for it yet. Like people knew and I was picked on and like I did do my best to kind of fit in as much as I could, but like I. I remember like how you said like with the drinking, like that was definitely like a huge part to be like, okay, nothing bothers me anymore if I'm drinking or using. I mean, how do you feel like that affected your gender identity for so long? Or impacted it?

Chris: 6:31

Well, you know, I think it was a great number. I didn't care. Mm-hmm. I was so focused on the drug and the, and the drink that it didn't matter. You know, I wasn't really concerned about anything else except for that. I was like very singleness of purpose, right? Mm-hmm. like my primary purpose was to get as high as possible all day, every day. And so, I just didn't think about it because I couldn't think about it. I couldn't think about it, and I couldn't really investigate. Also, I didn't really have people around to sort of like, help me investigate what I was actually feeling. And that worked for a long time. And then it stopped working. And then I got sober and that sort of started to change. You know, I'm, I'm lucky I live in New York City where we have a huge, huge, huge. Fellowship here, and it's super diverse. Like the city itself is super diverse, right? And then you get into recovery, it's even more diverse it feels like, and at least where I'm, where I get my recovery. Mm-hmm. And it allowed me the space to really investigate how I'm feeling and what's coming up for me and like what have I been lying to myself or hiding from myself for many, many years. out of safety because like, I feel safe now, you know, and I don't need to like hide these parts away. And, you know, I think about for me just the visibility of like non-binary folks and, and trans folks. Like it's, there's just so much more of it today that it, it again just allowed me to sort of investigate like where. Who, who am I? What do I actually feel? And you know, it really has been in the last like three or four years where I was just like, yeah, I don't really identify as a man, you know? Mm-hmm. know I look like one, you know, like you look at me and you're like, oh yeah, definitely man. Right? Like I'm muscular and I, and I have like facial hair and I work back where baseball's caps and tank tops. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. like, you look at me, you think, man, but like, I don't, that's because it's easy. Yeah. This is easy. This is what I've been doing for the past 20 years to feel safe. And so like my wardrobe gives that, but at the end of the day, there are days where it's just like, I'm just gonna wear a full face and makeup and dress and whatever just to go to the supermarket. Like, and that is also a part of me, right? Like and so yeah, it took a lot of conversations with my therapist and with other trans and don binary folks and, you know, really conversations with my Howard Power about like, who am I, who am. Who am I? And you know, I think it was, it's been almost two years since I came out as non-binary. So yeah. I don't know if I answered your question. Yeah, I did. I

Steve: 9:13

think you did too. I mean, you, I feel like, you know, especially as addicts and as people in like the queer community, like we have to come out multiple times throughout our life. Like what was that process of coming out like?

Chris: 9:24

It wasn't difficult. Mm-hmm. You know, I'm really lucky that I have an amazing community around me and I started to like socially transition. Mm-hmm. In the sense that like, I, you know, presented more fem more often and I changed my pronouns to Hek for a while. And, you know, I had heve pronouns for like two years and, you know I. Yeah, I think last year or the year before was like the first time I just, like, I dropped the he altogether and just go by they, them theirs pronouns and it wasn't difficult. You know, like I said, I'm really grateful that I have amazing people around me who like, get it, you know? And if they don't get it, they're willing to either ask me questions that are not insulting or disrespectful or just these plaque full or do the work themselves, you know? And there have been times where it's like I have to remind people and there are some people like, who I just like, it doesn't, I don't, they don't matter to me. So I don't care if you get my pronouns right. Like you're not, you know, like if you misgender me, it's fine, because like, you don't really play a role in my life, you know? Yeah. I'm probably gonna see you maybe once or twice a year and like, that's fine. But for everyone else, everyone's been like, it's been super easy. It's been, I'm, I've, I'm really, I'm really lucky and fortunate for.

Steve: 10:41

Yeah. And what about how, like discovering that has enhanced or like affected your recovery and your

Chris: 10:49

sobriety? Oh gosh. You know, we talk about rigorous honesty. Mm-hmm. and I think it's allowed me to be rigorously honest. It, you know, I think not that I was like keeping a secret. but I wasn't being honest with myself and I, and, and, and in turn wasn't being honest with the rest of the world. And I definitely felt lighter, you know? Which is, which was interesting to sort of like have that experience because I felt pretty light, you know, having done the steps and like, you know, beared everything to my, you know, I've done it, but like all the things I thought I had done all that stuff It's been great and it also has allowed me to sponsor other folks and connect with other folks who are also gender nonconforming and gender expansive folks, you know, and build community there as well. Which, you know, I can, I always say this, like, you can never have a big enough network, you know and, and. Yeah, I think it's only just strengthened my sobriety and I'm really grateful for it. You know, I'm grateful that I, I feel safe enough that I can, like, share these things about myself with the people that are around me and, yeah.

Steve: 11:57

Yeah. And what, what kind of advice would you give to someone if they listen or listening to this episode be, and they're like confused or figuring out or working on discovering their gender? Like what are some things that they can do or ask themselves or think about?

Chris: 12:10

Oh, I would say do whatever the fuck you want. Yeah. It changes for me daily. Mm-hmm. you know. And so like the way you're feeling today may not be the way that you're feeling tomorrow, and that is absolutely okay. It does not invalidate any of those two experiences. Mm-hmm. Right. If you were three months down your like gender discovery. Like discovery and you realize that like, mm, no, I'm not non-binary, or I'm not this or not. That's fine. You can do whatever you want. Like it's your body only you will be able to tell what's going on. And I would say try to just find people in community and talk about it as often as possible with those people who have that shared experience. You know, I think the internet is a great resource. internet is a great resource. It is like the devil in many ways, but like the amount of people that I've been able to connect with just via Instagram has been really, really, really amazing and helpful. And there's a lot of information out there. So just go find that information, find those people, and listen to your head and your. That's what I would say. Yeah.

Steve: 13:17

Yeah. If, if you can give your, let's say, 10 year old self, like a bit of advice, looking back about discovering yourself, what kind of advice would you give your younger self?

Chris: 13:28

You know, at 10 I was really good. Mm-hmm. I think it would be like my 14 year, 15 year old self. Okay. I would say, I would say to that, that kid, that version of Chris, I would say don't listen to them. I would say do what feels best for you. Block out the rest of the noise. You know exactly who you are and what you want to do, and just do that. everything else will work out, I promise.

Steve: 13:54

That's great advice. And I know that one of the things that kind of like tripped me up or got me confused as I was like learning about like my gender and where, where I fit into all that was like that it can be like different than like your sexuality and like your sexual preferences and like, can you talk a little bit more about like how you differentiate the two and like how they interact with each other and stuff like.

Chris: 14:17

Yeah. And I think that that's been a really interesting discovery for me as a late, as like, you know, I'm recently single and I'm back on the apps again. Mm-hmm. and like, you know being on the apps as a non-binary person is really, it's not fun. especially in the, like, the, you know, the male dominated spaces. Mm-hmm. it's just really interesting. But what I will say is that, Sexuality and gender are two different things. Mm-hmm. there are two different things and I'm sort of rediscovering like my sexuality and like what that means for me. I don't know. I think, you know, I'm attracted to men, whether it be cis men or trans men. I'm attracted to men. Mm-hmm. There have been women that I'm attracted to, but like, that's like a one-off every, you know, every 10 years maybe. Yeah. But. Yeah. What would I say about that? I don't know that they're just two different things and you know, just like with gender, it's, it's a constant exploration. It may differ today than it does tomorrow, and allow yourself the grace to figure that out. Yeah. You know, and there's no shame in anything cuz like it's 2023, we should not be shaming people by who they're attracted to. Yeah. You know,

Steve: 15:22

like preach

Chris: 15:24

So.

Steve: 15:25

Yeah. And I'm sure you have tons of horror stories from the apps, but can you tell us about like a positive interaction that you've had with someone, like in talking about gender?

Chris: 15:33

Yeah. I just had some really horrible experiences recently. So like, all I can think about. Not having to read people for a pill, but would just be like, Google is a free resource. Yeah. Please use I will say that very recently I've been having some really wonderful conversations with other trans folks on the apps and just like finding community there and I did have a really good conversation with one of the developers of this new app called Motto, and we had a really, really, really amazing conversation. Not only around like gender expansive folks on the app, but also like people of color on the apps and how they can better be inclusive and how they can like market themselves differently and how they can like be different than the other apps that we encounter. Because they all are essentially the same and they're all pretty trash and they. Yeah. It was really nice to like just sit down with someone and be like, listen, this is my experience and this is how I think that you could be better. So those have been some good experiences. It's just like, yeah, people who ask questions who are actually genuinely concerned. People who read profiles

Steve: 16:31

Yeah. I'm, I'm more interested to, I, I'm interested in hearing more about that, that conversation with the app. What, what was some of your feedback or your.

Chris: 16:37

You know, I think the app is brand new and they're still trying to figure out what their lane is. And I think for me, I just was like, get clear about that. And I also You know, there wasn't, they had dropped on menus for like gender and things like that, but there wasn't like any explanations as to like what those things might be because like people still don't know, like, you know, like people just don't know because they like to say blissfully ignorant or they have their own biases or whatever. And so it's just like offering that and. You know, just really figuring out how they're gonna be different. You know, I was just like, it's your job to figure out how you're gonna be different because we have a lot of apps at our disposal and if you're gonna stay in this game, you know, cuz the ones that are there are pretty well established. Right. And like, whether they're trash or not, like people are still gonna use them cuz they've been around for almost 20 years. So God, I'm old.

Steve: 17:26

I was just thinking is like, because I know like the, obviously the one, the G one has been around like forever, but like, I was like thinking of all the ones that like existed and have like since like failed or disappeared,

Chris: 17:36

Olivia. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'm old anyway. Yeah. And you know, the conversation went really well, you know, and we are still in con in conversations on how we can, like, how they can, how they can still be better, you know? Which is good. I felt really good to like, one, have them reach out, two, set up a call, three one to continue the conversation. Like that just makes me feel good that they're reaching out to the people who are actually using their products. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because a lot of times they do these like focus groups. It's like paid people who come and they like, lie. I've done focus groups and I've lied in focus groups, you know, just to get the coin, you know what I mean? Do I own amends for that? Doesn't matter anyway. Yeah, I, I'm hopeful I'll say that. I'm hopeful. Excellent.

Steve: 18:18

For sure. And any last words of wisdom or advice for our listeners about recovery or about.

Chris: 18:23

You know, this is something that I just need to hear, like, offer yourself some grace. This shit is not easy. and it is okay to ask for help. It is okay to ask for help and not know what that help looks like. You know, just, just saying the words I need help can be extremely, extremely impactful. So yeah, that, those would be my words of advice. Perfect.

Steve: 18:45

And if someone listening is just so eager to get that more advice from you, how can they find you or reach you?

Chris: 18:50

They can find me on Instagram at c p r gives you life. That is c p r gives you life like, like the mouth to mouth. Yeah. Resuscitation. Yeah. Yeah. But they're also my initials. So it's like a, that's a plan words. Anyway. That sounds really corny. No, I

Steve: 19:03

like it.

Chris: 19:07

Excellent. Yeah, that's

Steve: 19:08

the best way to find me. Well, thank you so much for talking about gender. It was great. Stick around cuz we'll have our post show. But in the meantime, it was a pleasure getting to know you better, Chris.

Chris: 19:19

Thank you. Sorry. Right as I started drinking you Yes. I was like, I time that. Horribly.

Steve: 19:24

Ok. You could take a sip while I do my little outro Great. All right. Thank you listeners for tuning into another episode of Gay make sure to head on over to our Patreon page if you want to hear more about Chris as we dive into talking about dual diagnoses and treatment in recovery. Meanwhile, if you're interested in sharing your story or just saying, hi, I'm an email away, ga podcast gmail.com or on Instagram ga podcast. Be sure to follow us wherever you're listening right now so you can get new episodes when they come out every Thursday. Until next time, stay sober friends.