Sexuality ft. Charlie Gray

Steve welcomes back friend of the podcast, Charlie Gray, to discuss discovering and embracing our sexuality in recovery.

For more Charlie Gray, check out his numerous past episodes with us, google 'At Least I'm Not the Frog' or follow him on IG @hismajestycharles3rd - and follow us while you are at it @gayapodcast

Check out our Post-Show to hear us discuss sexual first times at www.patreon.com/gayapodcast

Until next time, stay sober friends!

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Transcript

Steve: 0:55

Hi everyone, and welcome to Gay, a podcast about sobriety for the LGBTQ plus community and our allies. I'm your host Steve. Bennet-Martin. I am an alcoholic and I am grateful for being gay. As of this recording, I am 626 days sober, and today we're welcoming back friend of the podcast Charlie Gray, to talk about discovering and embracing your sexuality and recovery. Thanks for coming back, Charlie. Yes.

Charlie: 1:19

Hi Steve. Thank you so much for having me back. I love it on here. This is great,

Steve: 1:24

Yes, I'm very excited for this episode, but before we get into that, what's been going on since we last talked in December?

Charlie: 1:31

You know, not too much. I'm still just hanging with that baby nephew as much as I can. Just that time is so special. It's so much fun. It's everything. I knew it was going to be. just holding him in my arms and he's so little and sweet and innocent. It just makes you really, really proud to be like sober and present and there for that. So that's been great. We're gearing up for a family trip here in a couple weeks and that'll be a lot of fun. And I've, you know, heavily been finishing up and now starting the edits of the third.

Steve: 2:11

So Excellent. And when does that come out?

Charlie: 2:15

That will be out May 29th of this year. Excellent. So just a couple months now? Yes, yes,

Steve: 2:20

yes. Excellent. And why did you choose the topic of sexuality to talk about today? Well,

Charlie: 2:27

honestly, because in writing this third book and really in my sober journey over this last couple of years, it's been, there's been a parallel journey, journey going on with that, you know, with, with realizing the role my sexuality played in my addiction and how it fueled it, how it morphed it. So it's just when I saw the, the topics, I was like, of course I have to discuss discovering my sexuality because it. Hand in hand with like the trauma of losing my mother at a young age and, and being an alcoholic. You know, those are like the three pillars of this fucked up man that I am

Steve: 3:08

So I hear ya. And before we j dive into all that trauma that oftentimes gets associated with our sexuality do you have any happy stories or memories about discovering your sexuality as a child or a young.

Charlie: 3:23

Yes. You know, for the, for the most part it was, it was never like a sad, the only thing I knew I was gay from a very, very early age, from about nine years old. I understood what it meant to be gay. I had an uncle that was gay, so it wasn't something that, you know, was foreign to my little world. So I knew that I was the only thing. That scared me about being gay was, I was so young. It was in probably around, this would've been around 93, 94, 95, whenever I was like, you know, aware that I was gay, so we're it's aids, you know, it was still so bad really at that point, or we were just coming off of it and I didn't, I didn't know what sex was. Of course, I was too young to know what sex was or to understand. that disease. I just knew that it was something that was associated with gay men. Mm-hmm. And I thought, okay, well you are, I know that you are gay and I know that nobody will really talk about this disease. I know something happened to Uncle Bradley's, like boyfriend or partner, but we don't really get into that. So it was just this very mysterious disease that I thought I was going to get just because I was gay. Mm-hmm. So I lived in a lot of fear as a young kid and. you know, it really kind of, it hampered, didn't hamper, I guess that's not the right word. It just impeded a relationship with God because I was like, I can't believe in God because why did he make me this way and then he is just gonna kill me off. And so it, it, it made for a lot of confusion and a lot of fear. But the core of me was okay with it. I knew it was okay. I knew. I was still gonna be loved in that it, it wasn't gonna be that big of a deal. So it was very mixed emotions.

Steve: 5:15

Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, I, I had a so different, different experience. Like I remember. even before like it was like sexual, like, like playing around with like boys. Like I remember I was probably like five or six at summer camp and I got in trouble for having sword fights with my wiener with another like boy. We were like five or six, like it obviously wasn't sexual cuz we were like children, but like, yeah, in the locker room after the pool or whatever. We thought it was like so fun to just like pretend our penises were swords. Smack'em against each other. And it became such a huge deal at camp where like the counselors like got my parents involved, they got this other kid's parents involved. They called everyone in and like, we didn't know what we were doing or what, like, and they made it like so wrong. And we were like told like how disgusting and wrong and inappropriate and vile it was. Oh, and then that just scars you. Yeah, and I was like, I didn't even know what I was doing was like wrong or inappropriate. Like it was just like two kids just like playing around with their bodies like and very innocent. Yeah, very interesting. It's very innocent and yeah, I just remember like instantly being like, okay, well the stuff that I want to do I can't do because it's wrong and disgusting and horrible. It's wrong. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, did you have any experiences like that where you felt wrong or othered?

Charlie: 6:31

It wasn't so much a feeling of being wrong. It was a very early feeling of being different and knowing that that different wasn't necessarily a good thing. It wasn't necessarily a bad thing. It was just a thing that maybe I didn't want to talk about. Yeah. You know, I remember. and I did grow up in a small town in the country, so in my world, I was the only gay person. I didn't, there weren't gay role, you know, it was just like, it was a different, I knew I was different. It wasn't wrong, but it was. Yeah. You just know and you're like, God, does everyone else know I'm different? So now I have to try so hard to be just like everyone else, to be so normal. Yes. That this huge difference will never, my secret won't be out.

Steve: 7:18

Yeah. And then, I mean, I, I do have a positive story about growing up though. I like, after carrying that secret for so long, I was so mad for years that the first person, when I told them that they were gay, I remember I was at a sleepover party like I was my friend Greg, spending the night and like talking at night, like in our, like my bed and like, he was on his sleeping bag on the floor and we were just like, I was like, I have a secret I need to tell you. Well, and like I dragged out forever, just like so afraid of like what he would say. and I said, I was like, I'm gay. And it was the first time I ever said it out loud and there was like a long silence. And then he said back me too. And I was, oh, I was so pissed off at the time that he stole my thunder. And I was like, this is my moment. This is my first time. But such a deep response. But I love it. But like in hindsight, like. It, it, I'm really lucky in some ways that like the first person I told, like it wasn't a big deal of anything. Like they were like, me too. Yeah. And it showed me that, like, I forgot along the way. But yeah, you can have healthy relationships with people who were gay and have it not be about sex. Because we never like went in that direction cuz you were like, Going into high school and just young and like it never happened. Which is sad cuz he turned out to be really hot when he grew up But yeah, it was, it was nice that like the first time that I confided in someone, not only was it a safe space, but they became same. Someone that I can talk to about it that understood for, for a while. So in hindsight, I'm very grateful for that. Oh,

Charlie: 8:40

that's beautiful. That is so beautiful. I love that. And yes, when I came out, it's a very happy experience. I, you know, It was pretty much move-in day of college that I was like, no more. I am a gay boy. I like dicks. I love'em. Yeah, I'm gonna be sucking them. You know? So it was like, that was a great moment for me. It felt so good to be who I was and to be surrounded by people that were the same age as me that didn't give a shit. So many people, you know, boys, straight boys. That's what was so important to me. I didn't ever really have any straight boyfriends. I had some, some friends that were my boys when I was a kid, but when I switched schools at 13, that was a rough time. Everyone instantly knew I was gay. I wasn't out. I was trying to hide it. It was torturous and I just wanted boys that were friends. So when I got to college and I rushed and there were all these straight guys that knew I was gay, that didn't care, that were my friend, I was like, this is so amazing. So yeah, when I came out I was extremely lucky as well. My family, I didn't tell my dad for a couple years, but the majority of my family knew right when college started, and that was one of my happiest times because I was authentically myself and just so proud. So it really made up for the kind of scary childhood that I had with it.

Steve: 10:07

Yeah. And how do you feel your sexuality in drinking or drug use affected

Charlie: 10:12

each? oh my gosh. They started to go hand in hand a couple years after my addiction really had come onto the scene. You know, I was doing drugs, I was drinking, I was just a mad man. And that's when I started trying to fill that hole in my life with everything. And boys came into that. And it wasn't always for sex. In fact, a lot of the time it was for free drugs. You know, it was. I, I knew that. I knew that I wasn't, I knew that I was easy on the eyes. Okay? So I knew that I was gonna get in people's doors. I knew that they were gonna invite me over. I knew I was gonna have no problems there. So I was like, fuck, get me to these guys that have all this shit. If I have to have sex with'em, I will. That's cool. I've never been a huge, I am a sexual person, but it's not. It's not my main thing. I just wanna get fucked up and have fun and laugh and stuff. I don't, I don't get fucked up in fuck, you know? Mm-hmm. there's, I think there's just, just some people are different, but yeah, I, I started having so much unprotected wild sex doing, dabbling in meth, drinking, just lots of Xanax and. I was cloudy. Everything was cloudy. My addiction, my life, my sex life, I, I didn't date. I just went from one trap house to another and it was horrible. And those were my worst years. Those were my absolute worst years. Act like, I shouldn't say that cuz I still had a roof to go back to every night. Mm-hmm. It wouldn't get worse. Yeah. But that was the beginning of the, the worst years. Yes.

Steve: 12:34

Yeah. And how has your relationship with sex changed in recovery?

Charlie: 12:39

Oh my God. It's been just the most, it's been wild because you sober sex is. A whole fucking thing. I know that was a bullet point that you'd wanted to talk about too, because I'm like, it is this huge thing because it's, and I remember the first time, the first time I had sober sex, let me just tell you, it was with someone that was in recovery too. And we were living in this sober house and we had been living together for about six months and we were just flirting hardcore. But we knew. We knew it was not a good idea. We knew we could get kicked out. We. that we didn't need to start a, like we knew all these things, but we're also two men that are so fucking horny. Yeah. In a room by ourselves. You know, like, what do you want us to do? and the first night that we did it, it was so awkward. He was a recovering meth addict. I was a recovering alcoholic. So you know, we came at sex from very fucked up sex, from very different perspectives. I mean, he used to like to, to shoot up and go for days having sex. I obviously, Hadn't experienced that very much. So I think it was such a different world for him to not have needles, to not have it be such a heightened situation. For me, I was more used to sex being blurry to fumbly, to, there was like a more aggressive, dominant personality that could come out in me whenever I was drunk. So I was, I was one way in the bedroom, you know? I was able to access that. So it. without, I didn't know. It was just very strange. I was like, how do I do this? Yeah. How do I do what I wanna do? What I like to do, but I don't know how to do it cuz I'm not drunk. And he was experiencing the same thing cuz he wasn't spun out and it, it was great. It was great. Don't get me wrong. It was really, really good. And we were both really thankful, but it was so. that afterward we were both just like I, I think I'm okay with not fucking around for a little while because that, that's a lot to process what we just both did. Yeah. And we were both on our own journeys, so. I 100% understand the like sober sex conversation cuz it's, it's, it's a trip the first time

Steve: 14:53

you do it. Yeah, I was gonna say like my first time, like after getting sober, like even with my husband was like a big deal and people were like, oh no, like you've been married for like a decade. Like it's fine. But like same thing, even when I wasn't drunk, like I was stoned. Like I was like something during our sex for like years and years and. and so it was like, it was like the first time again with this person that I've known for so long and so, yeah. Yeah, it was certainly interesting. I mean, what's something that you've learned about your sexuality recently?

Charlie: 15:26

It's something that I've learned about, you know, I learned a lot in, in writing the third book. Just how proud, I'm really proud of myself. I never let it get me down. I never let the fact that I was gay enter the negative self-talk that I would feed myself. You know, I wouldn't let, and I think that's great because I think that we can use our sexuality as. Like, maybe we don't like the color of our hair, or maybe we don't like our nose. And so when we are really mad at ourselves and when we're going for our own jugular, we're gonna pull out the things that we hate the most about ourselves. And I'm so happy that my sexuality was never one of those weapons I would use to attack myself, because that tells me that it was so inherently accepted and I was so inherently okay with it. that it, it wa you know, it wasn't even there to access as a tool. So I'm like, that's, that's good. I'm proud of you for that. Somebody did, mama or somebody, I don't know. Somebody did something right on one thing.

Steve: 16:39

So thank God. That's awesome. And yeah. What would you say is something regarding your sexuality that you're still working on or figuring out?

Charlie: 16:50

You know, the, oh God, I. I'll tell you Bud, I I really haven't been in relationships and so that's a huge part of my sexuality that I is still just like unknown to me. I, I, and now that I'm sober, you know, even when I was in relationships, I was fucked up on, on many things. So I, I don't, I haven't been an adult in love, been a child, I haven't ever been in. in a normal, or not a normal, but like a sober functioning state. So that's something I grapple with is wh do is why, first off, why are you not seeking this out? Why is there an aversion to it? Let's figure that out. And then once you figure that out and you get into a relat, what happens if that relationship doesn't work out, you know? Mm-hmm. like, what happens if you get your heart broken and, and you know yourself and, and is it gonna be an avenue for relapse? Then there's just, there's it, it, it opens up so many things for me when I start to think about it. Mm-hmm. that it, that tells me that there's a lot of work there to do. There's a lot of work there to do because if you don't know those answers pretty easily. That's not a bad sign, but it's not a great sign. Mm-hmm. So I do worry about that. But I I don't know about dating and sex. I'm not a sexually active person right now. I, I'm so motivated on, on what I need to be doing to get my life where I want it to be, that I've really left that untouched and on the back burner, and I'm, I'm, I am frightened to see what the fuck's gonna happen when I start dazzling in that.

Steve: 18:38

Yeah, I can, I can imagine. I mean, when do you decide, when you like are getting to know someone, whether you wanted to go sexual or relationship or kind of play that by ear

Charlie: 18:49

sex, super quick sex, probably. If you are my type I am and you're down for it. I mean, I'll, let's go. Like I don't give a shit about that relationship. No, because I don't know, you know? Yeah. Because I've never, I don't know. That's like a great question. I, I think, I think I would probably start to develop some feelings for someone and know very quickly on like, Ooh, I'm, I'm catching something for this person. And then that would, would cause me to really pause and be like, is this appropriate for you right now? Is this what you want? and why? I don't know. Why would I? Because I feel like I would shut it down. I feel like until I've achieved certain things, it's just, I'm just gonna shut them down. Yeah. Like we can fuck, but we're not gonna do anything else.

Steve: 19:41

So what do you need to achieve before you can do anything else?

Charlie: 19:46

Financial independence. Mm-hmm. and freedom. I mean, I'm financially independent now, but you know, it, it needs to be. I need to live in a way where I can come and go as I please and really do what's important to me, and I think what's gonna leave a lasting imprint. And until I get to a place where I can do that, I don't, I don't have any interest. because whenever I meet someone, I want to be able to give myself to them, you know? Yeah. So it's like I, I'm not, I'm not there yet. Mm-hmm. I get so much shit about not dating from so many people. I feel like I should not take this time to defend myself, but I hear myself turning into like, well, listen, I'm just not ready, but

Steve: 20:32

I don't push yourself. If you're not ready, you're not ready. I won't be one of those people. I know. Let's switch it back then to, to sex. What are some, what would you say are sexual turnons for sexuality?

Charlie: 20:47

Oh gosh. What turn? Well, I just a really hot man. Mm-hmm. turns me on. Mm-hmm. But more if someone's passionate about something, I find that a huge turn on, I find intelligence a turn on, but it's. not the intelligence where you just like something that you've taught yourself, I guess. Like if you have had the intelligence to go, not just like a degree is what I'm saying. I mean, that's impressive too. I'm not saying that that's not, I'm just saying like a very honed intelligence is always, is always a turn on for me and then. if you're just such a empathetic person. But yeah, a a, a tall boy with really a tall, dark boy with dark eyes and dark hair and a booty. Mm-hmm. shut down the lights. Let's go. Oh my. No, don't shut those down. No. Keep those lights up, actually.

Steve: 21:50

But there you go. And sexual turnoffs,

Charlie: 21:54

What's the word? The opposite of acceptance. that the opposite of acceptance. Someone that's very close-minded someone that has, has very small thinking. Mm-hmm. it's a huge turnoff. Anyone that's gonna wear a what do you call, I never get political, but the maga manga. No. Make America. Yeah. Trump anyone. Huge turnoff. I see so many hot guys. And then I'll, they'll have a shirt on that'll say, let's go Brandon. And I'm immediately like, Ew. Now you're so fu ugly dude. Yeah. What so that, yeah, I

Steve: 22:29

got turn off. I can certainly agree with that. Yeah. And what about if someone was drunk or using Turn off?

Charlie: 22:39

No, no, not a turn. not a turn on. Mm-hmm. but not a turn off. That, that immediately accesses a different part of me that immediately gets me to a place of fuck. I know right where you're at. I feel so sorry for you. I can't I do anything. Should I do anything? What? You know, that that shuts, that puts me into a different mode, even if they're hot. Mm-hmm. even if it was Connor Jess that was shooting up, I would still be. Let's get you well, and then let's get you out of those pants.

Steve: 23:10

Good to know. And any last words of wisdom or advice or thoughts on sexuality in recovery? I

Charlie: 23:19

don't get hung up on the, don't throw yourself into a relationship, but you can have sex. You can most certainly have sex. Know yourself, trust. know your boundaries. If sex is your issue, then do not listen to a fucking word I've said. Mm-hmm. But yeah, we know. So don't be so strict.

Steve: 23:41

Perfect. And how can listeners find you if they want more? Charlie?

Charlie: 23:46

If you would love some more of this, Charlie, you can go to Facebook, look up Charlie Gray. You can go to Instagram, look up his Majesty. Charles iii. The easiest way, honestly, to find me type in, at least I'm not the frog into Google. You'll find everything. At least I'm not the frog. Perfect. That's all you need to do. Yep.

Steve: 24:06

I'll make sure to include that in the shin notes, just like usual. Thank you so much, Yeah, and stick around. I'm not done with you yet. We're about to go into first as we head on over to the Paton Show. But in the meantime, thank you, Charlie. It's been a pleasure.

Charlie: 24:21

Thank you.

Steve: 24:22

Yep. See y'all and thank you listeners for tuning into another episode of Gaya podcast. Feel free to head on over to our Patreon page as we talk about our sexual first at patreon.com/gaya. And if you're interested in sharing your story or just saying, hi, I'm an email away at Gay, a podcast@gmail.com or Instagram gay podcast. And follow us wherever you're listening so you can get new episodes when they come out every week. And until that time, stay sober friends.