Sober But Stuck ft. Kristen

Steve welcomes back friend of the podcast, Kristen, to discuss feeling sober but stuck, and how we overcome ruts in recovery.

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Transcript

Steve: 0:56

Hi everyone and welcome to Gay a, a podcast about sobriety for the LGBTQ plus community and our allies. I'm your host Steve Bennet-Martin. I am an alcoholic. I'm grateful for my sister-in-law, Darcy. As of this recording, I am 630 days sober and today we are welcoming back friend of the podcast and my sober sibling. Kristen, welcome back.

Kristen: 1:17

Nice. Steve, you, thanks for

Steve: 1:18

having me back. Yes, it is always good having a true friend on. I know it's been a minute since our last episode, I think it was when we were celebrating our anniversaries.

Kristen: 1:28

Whoa. Then yeah, that was a while ago. So what's been

Steve: 1:31

going on since then? Oh

Kristen: 1:33

my gosh. I mean a lot and also not that much. I got my anniversary as Did you? Congratulations. I started sponsoring. I might have, maybe we were just on the verge of that. Yeah. Probably every year. So I've had two Spons so far. I have been, I mean, we still go to mustard seed all the time, although I go a little. less maybe than I used to, is I've been going to more in person and sort of trying some other meetings and styles out. Lifewise things are pretty much the same still in Brooklyn still, you know, kicking it with my nieces living life. Excellent.

Steve: 2:12

And out of all the things we could spend our day talking about, why did you choose sober, but.

Kristen: 2:18

I mean, maybe just cause I'm a moody emo bitch, but no, I. Thought I have been feeling a little stuck and it's one of those things where I feel like maybe just talking about it would help, you know, so I, I picked that. I, I don't know that I would like only describe myself as stuck, you know? I think there's gotten a lot of progress in a lot of ways, but I feel like I'm not the only person who feels funny and like adolescent at about a year and a half, which is what we have. So I thought it would be a

Steve: 2:49

good. I certainly agree it was suggested by listener and former guest, mark. So it's something that, you know, obviously people want to hear about cuz we all go through it no matter how long we have in the program. If you're in it like long enough or sober long enough, like they're highs and lows and so, I think part of it, like looking back, I know that we both shared our stories before, but like today, looking back at those beginning day counting days, how do you remember those? What was it like?

Kristen: 3:20

Oh my gosh. I mean, I don't know if this is, if I'm the only person who feels this way, but I consistently look back on the worst periods of my life with this weird twinge of, of nostalgia. Mm-hmm. I think cuz everything was so intense and a lot of times when I f like there's no part of me that wants to go back there. I know. Objectively it was so hard. And yet I have, it's like I was just feeling my feelings, you know, crying every night, connecting with people like really? In the swirl. And so like, my memories a bit really vivid and kind of like I don't know, just, I think we say this a lot when people come in and do qualifications, but it's like the people who are, who are in the rooms with you and especially have a little bit more time for like, celebrities. You know? It's just like every experience is a little more intense. And so I am very, very grateful. I'm no longer there. Happy to have the time that I do, but yeah, it was, I, I, I was I was alive for better or for worse. is how I would describe myself.

Steve: 4:26

Yeah. Yeah, I can agree. I mean, I look back and like, especially those like first few days, like I remember just like being a mess. Like not being able to like comprehend a full sentence or two. I remember like being at work and someone would be, Spent a half an hour talking to me about what my assignment is for the day, and they leave the room and within five seconds I'd look over at my coworker and be like, wait, what? Absolut. I, I like, I definitely had like a fog brain, like as I was going through dts, but like even after that, like I had the, like I went to a wedding five days or six days sober, which was not the best idea, but I just remember it being like everything, like you said, like very intense. But at the same time I was like, ready to do anything and like, right. But that I think is like something that, like we forget sometimes is like that newness of like that earnest desire of like, you need to make this

Kristen: 5:14

work. Right? Which is when it goes away, you have to find other motivations and sort of. Fuel, which is maybe why sober and stuck then becomes a good topic,

Steve: 5:26

Yeah. And since we both work a program, a 12 step program, what was your experience like going through the steps?

Kristen: 5:34

I mean it was really powerful. I. Had a sort of rough start. I had three sponsors in like three weeks. But when I really got a sponsor that I cared about a lot, she really helped me. I mean, it's funny now because now I'm doing it with a sponsee and I just said my memories are very intense and vivid. And that's true in terms of like, the room I was in or like people's faces. But when I try to now remember like what the hell my sponsor said to me when I was working step one, it's a total blank. I'm like, W she must have said something. It saved my life. But did my brain record the words so I can say them to a spy? No, it certainly did not. But yeah, I mean, I remember doing a lot of. journaling, A lot of talking sort of at my poor sponsor. Kind of my mouth going a mile a minute for like, especially for the first few. I felt a lot of relief on step three. I remember like I started saying that prayer that I still say. And then I sat on step four the way it seems like many, if not most people do but then worked it and had a very. Powerful step five experience where I was in LA where my sponsor lives, she'd been my you know, we, we mostly talked over Zoom, so we did it in person and that was really profound. And I, and I'm really grateful for it. And then eight, nine, and 10 sorry. No, this is going a little long. They were powerful. They, they didn't have and this has been true actually of. A, a lot of people I've spoken to, and especially women being sponsored by women that I, I imagined this like giant apology tour through the wreckage of my life and my sponsor mostly was like, no, I don't think that person needs to hear from you. So I only really did two or three in person a. A few more sort of like, and probably should still do some more where I just like write the letter and don't send it. But I do think it helped a lot in that now I feel like I know what an amend is and I can just make it kind of casually right away. And then 11 and 12, I mean, I'm still working on 11 to try and get a prayer meditation practice going, but I do. And then 12th is. So now I'm in the, in the thick of it. You're

Steve: 7:49

in the thick of it, for sure. And while, while going through those steps, did you find yourself in any ruts along the way? Yeah, well

Kristen: 7:56

I mentioned the sort of sitting on step four. Yeah. That feels that felt like a rut at the time. Or just, it just never felt satisfying. And even now, You know, some people work the steps every year and I do feel like I got lost in the weeds a lot that first time. Or I just was like writing, I'm writing, writing, I'm doing this right? Am I doing that right? And like I kind of almost wish or have the idea that I would try to do it again, kind of more with my gut instead of like getting the right answers. Saying the true answers. I feel like maybe I did that a few times or I like was too good of a student. So. Yeah, I think less of a rut in that. I like it was good to, I don't know, my homework doing brain does its homework, you know, like I, I could turn in the paper, but like, was I engaging with it emotionally in the best way? I'm not sure certainly as, as well as I could do at the time, but

Steve: 8:48

yeah, yeah, I, I can really, I did everything I could to like not start the fourth step until he was like, had no choice but like to do anything else. And I was like, Now I'll do it. But like, right, that was a rut. And then like, writing out all my amends, like I was expecting it to be, we like way worse. And I think part of it was cuz let, let like you, like my sponsor was like, you don't need to get into all that. Or like, they don't need to hear or like, there's no way you can track down that person cuz you need to learn what their first name is like before you sleep with them. Like, not after, not, not after you've burned it all down, but like before you get to know. So you know, but I definitely am glad that it's done. But it'll be interesting also like going back down the road and like doing them again cuz I know that that's like something people do right. And like going in deeper. Cuz I definitely think that like, especially. like with my resentments, like there were things that like I didn't go as deep into like, well in fourth grade this person who bullied me, like I heard few people like who have like books of things that like chronic, like go through their whole life. And mine was really just like, what's going on with my life at that time? Like my list was all people like in that job that I'm not even at anymore.

Kristen: 9:53

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I do think amends have the most power and maybe. are the most are useful when a relationship is ongoing. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like that was ask myself a lot. Like if I've lost track, lost touch with this person, they have not expressed any interest to hear from me for good reason. I don't want to reconnect with them. Yeah. What good does it do to call them up and be like, Hey, remember the time I sucked, like I will continue not to do that because we're never gonna talk again, you know? So I don't know. I'm curious. This is slightly a sidetrack. I was talking to somebody the other day and I realized we both sort of have the idea sometimes that if we have a resentment, there's some, not that we don't have a part, but like is there something for us to do? Do you know what I mean? Like I guess we just work. Oh, did you freeze? No,

Steve: 10:48

I'm here. I was just listening very intently. You were, you

Kristen: 10:51

really were. I don't even know if I wanna follow this conversational trail, but anyway, my friend was just like, I had this resentment to this person that I like, don't see and don't engage with, and I don't really think I did anything wrong other than be sort of jealous, you know? So I can't apologize for having like a negative feeling. Yeah. You know what I mean? If I know that it's my part, so like what do I do? And I was like, I don't know, I don't know how you like, cause because it, it's not quite the correct use of an amend to just make a feeling go away. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And that actually leads into like, I don't know, we'll talk probably about other 12 step programs, but like Al-Anon or something where it's just like, man, relationships are complicated and. I, it's hard to to know how to, how to manage them well. But anyway,

Steve: 11:46

yeah. I think we're all figuring it out. Yeah. But what would you say are some of the more difficult moments you've faced in your recovery

Kristen: 11:54

ever? You mean in the past year and a half? Yeah. Yeah, I, well, right after I got sober I had a kind of scary, kind of like both. work, but also personal situation kind of blow up in my face where it would've been very scary and stressful at the best of times. But when I actually look at the three, like the stuff that happened in the three months after I got sober I'm just like, it's astonishing that that all happened right then. Like it's just ridiculous that I was managing that at the same time I was managing to get sober. And it's like, on the one hand, all of those things, like in one way or another had their roots of my behavior when I was drinking. So it's like, it's not like as I sometimes felt God was punishing me, and yet the timing of it was kind of extraordinary. And so like I think about how and I, and I mean, I was lo, I mean, I was lucky that I had my sponsor and I had meetings and all of that stuff at that time, and it, it adds that feeling of intensity where I was just like living life at the highest pitch, being like, I don't know how to live like somebody tell me. Yeah. And all these things were kind of crashing in that were really pushing me to my limit. So since then I feel like you know, I've. Relationship conflicts or, you know, problems with my parents or, but there's just been nothing of like that whirlwind that. Carried me in to sobriety Yeah, I

Steve: 13:25

was gonna say, I, I remember you went through quite the whirlwind there for like quite a while. Like every day was like another episode of like, has I know Kristen's world turns like

Kristen: 13:34

I know, I know. And I was like, at the time I was like, am I making this out? Like, is this just life? Have I just been drunk this whole, no, just a lot of really intense things happened in like May, June and July or whatever of early sobriety. Yeah. Thank, thank God. Like I said, I have sobriety to get me through it, you know, but

Steve: 13:52

damn, that's awesome. And what about any recent ruts you've been encountering? So,

Kristen: 13:58

yeah, well, I guess I could say about to, yeah, to move into the question of what a sobriety rut looks like. And I wanna hear what you have to say too. I, I guess I started kind of alluding to it when I was like, I, I feel. On the one hand, I feel strong on my sobriety. It's at the core of my life. I go to a lot of meetings. I do a lot of service. I have a Spee, I have a sponsor. I don't, I've worked the steps. I'm grateful for what is given me, which is a lot. At the same time, for example, a lot of people say, like they don't get cravings anymore. Mm-hmm. and I still get them every day. Like today I wanted to like go get some ramen and I went in and I sat down and I was like, whoa, I don't know if I can stay here because I want a beer so bad. Like when people to my right, my left were drinking, I was just like, when does that go away? You know? And sort of similarly, like I was saying about the relationship. I feel like I do try to engage with other people differently and I, I am better for, you know, having worked the steps and like made amends and all that, but it's just like, people still really complicate it. I, I just think I like, have, not, like how dare they offer me a set of tools for a living that don't solve all my problems in 18 months? You know, like, yeah, what is this giving my money back? But like, yeah, I would say that like, the two things that both strike me is that my interpersonal relationships still, like with my, with everybody, you know what I mean? I'm not talking about, but just like, I often still bump up against'em. I don't feel like I know. how to use the tool or I think a rut is like, I feel like I'm using the tools and yet I'm still kind of like, for whatever reason, having a hard time. You know, if I'm not, if I'm just not using the tools, it's not a rut, it's just me being lazy and I can do that. But a rut is when I'm like, went to a meeting and I prayed on it. I talked to my sponsor about it and made three calls and I put in the got box and like this person's still driving me crazy. You know? Yeah. But yeah. What about you? What, what does

Steve: 16:09

it mean? I mean, it really depends on like how you define it. Cuz like there would definitely have. Ruts in my recovery where I'm not working as hard, but it is, like you said, like is a rut. Just laziness because like I've had those times where like I recorded a month of episodes in advance, so I didn't have to do any podcasting for three weeks and I wasn't planning any sober socials in my area until the following month. And so like there might be like three or four weeks. I maybe going to three or four meetings a night, like a week. But like when I go to the meetings, I'm like on my phone playing my games the entire time. Like I definitely have been guilty of having like those kinds of ruts where like I was still doing the things, but it was like the bare minimum and I wasn't reaching out to people. But like that was like a lack of work. I would say that like in terms of when I was doing all the things and it felt like it wasn't working. Kind of burnout from like the best week ever. But like last week when I went to GSM and like I saw you in New York and. I had like the best of my, my life. Like, it was a really hard, like, going back to the real world after that, like after spending a week like with my fellows, finding this community of like, like-minded, sober, like queer people and just like living my free, authentic life and not having a worry in the world, or not having to work or have sales goals or like a husband to take care of. And just like being out on my own, like coming back like life was. and like I would reach out to people all day long. I would go to multiple meetings and like at the, I was like, still. I don't like my life. Like I want to just be living recovery, which is impossible. Like part of like the reading that you

Kristen: 17:44

had me do last night, last last night, just just said. Yeah. But do you feel, I mean, speaking of being on your phone and meetings, I mean, do you have that feeling? I sometimes I'm just. Sometimes meetings are the most profound things I've ever been to like the entire human tapestry on display. Like people in their feelings, miracles happening, and then other times they're so boring, I like cannot pay attention to save my life. And I'm just like, and it's really mostly true on Zoom, I don't think, if I get to a meeting, is that true? Sometimes I'm crawling outta my skin, but I'm not bored in the same way. Yeah. But every once in a while, like I just. it feels like everybody's saying the same thing over and over and over, and I just, this like bratty. Like teenager in my head is like, I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I'm so mean. And then it's something shifts and I love them again, but it's very real.

Steve: 18:40

Oh yeah. And I, I think that like, it's also different in that like, since we're Zoom babies, like yeah, people will act differently like on a Zoom meeting than they would ever in a person, person, like in person meeting. I mean there have been like in a couple in-person meetings where I was not feeling it. It was not for me, but like the struggle was me staying awake and keeping my eyes open cuz they just kept on like closing as I was like drifting off and it wasn't great. Yeah. But I've also been to like some of the best meetings I've been to, I've been in person ones, but like online, you, if you look through, like, especially when I bounce and like I'm watching all the boxes for like sketchy people. Like remember of people I see like clearly like doing something else or asleep or like closing their eyes,

Kristen: 19:18

oh, I fell asleep in a Zoom meeting when. Traveling the other day and I was so embarrassed. I was like, on my, I thought my camera was off and I was on my phone, and then I was asleep, and then I was back up on my phone, and then I looked at my computer and I just saw myself, you know, like sprawled out in utter disarray and I was so

Steve: 19:32

embarrassed. I know, and I'm sure like it happens to people. Yeah. But like, like, you know, there was one person in our meeting for a while that like the, the end of fellowship, they're still there and they haven't moved, and you're like, are they alive? Like, are they breathing? Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I think getting stuck. Yeah, that was like the one time where, and I think just the solution for that was time, like adjusting back to life and having to realize that like I can't just completely change my life cuz I had one good awesome week, Right. But ultimately, like did have good things like that weekend is what inspired me, like move out of sales and no, I'm happy. So it works. Yeah. I mean, how have you found yourself overcoming ruts when you get into. Well, I think one

Kristen: 20:14

thing is, and we, I think we've talked about this before too, it's like sometimes, especially at the beginner's meeting at Mustard Seed, it feels like, oh, I shouldn't take up time from the people who are just counting Daniels. And I think. Sometimes that's true. Like if there's a lot of newcomers, I won't put my hand up, but then I need to go to a different meeting because if I'm not getting my hand up, like once my hand is up, I'm paying attention. If only because my ego is like, you don't wanna say something somebody already said, you know? Yeah. Or whatever. So making sure I have a reason to pay attention, whether it's having my hand up or service. I think that's right. And I also try to listen to my boredom. That's the thing I do with writing too. If I'm bored, maybe I'm not getting what I need. Like, sometimes you just have to push through it. But other times it's like maybe you need a literature meeting or a step meeting or another, another program, which is, you know, something I've thought about a lot and have been tr experimenting with. You know, cuz that's how you grow. So sometimes it's a sign that like, yeah, this is not working. Try somewhere else. Yeah. I guess so far that's what I've, what I've been doing and sponsorship I do think is really like where it's at. I feel like if you're not trying to sponsor. like that's why you would pay attention. Like I did step one, like why would I ever have to pay attention to step one again? It's like, oh, if I'm trying to explain it to someone, I'm like, oh, I actually have no idea what it's I to learn it all over again. And I think that's probably like long term, the real key is that you don't actually know anything until you've tried to teach it. Yeah. Like, yeah,

Steve: 21:46

it'll work out for me eventually. I'm not.

Kristen: 21:49

I mean, doing it, is it working out? It's like that story about Bill being like, nobody's getting sober, you know? And then Lois is being like, spill. You're the one who's still sober. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like there's no not working out. I know, I know. It's like hard, but yeah. You're doing it. It's working out.

Steve: 22:06

Yeah. And we both have mentioned how like service helps keep us sober. What does service mean to. I

Kristen: 22:12

mean, a lot of it's just a reason I have to sh like I have to show up, you know what I mean? I feel like I am codependent and responsible enough that like, just not wanting to get in trouble or let people down is something like, will get me outta bed where this is good for you and may even save your life. Won't, you know? Mm-hmm. And so a lot of it is just like external, it's like an exoskeleton. Mm-hmm. You know, to make me actually go to meetings. Yeah. I feel like that's it. Just like practice getting, I have a problem in my real life saying no, you know, like I'll say yes to things. I sometimes I feel like the like. First explanation of service in ai, which is like you're inherently selfish and you need to think about other people for a once in your goddamn life is like not quite reflective of. Me and the way that I like am selfish. Do you know what I mean? Like you can be selfish by always being like, I'm such an angel. I help everyone. I say yes to everything, da, da da da da, and seething with resentment underneath. You know what I mean? So for me, asking myself like, am I really being of service? A thing I did actually that I feel like is big for me is that I nominated. I was nominated to be the overall chair. I told you about this at the group I go to in person. And I just felt in my gut, I'm not ready. I don't wanna do this right now. I don't think I'm the right person. And it was so hard for me to be like, couldn't say no. I had to be like, can I think about it? And then I called my sponsor and I was like, I don't think this is the right service position for me right now. And we talked it through and she was like, that sounds good. And I told the people and they were so fine with it. And I feel like being honest about your capabil. also is trying to be like, can I really be of service? You know what I mean? Yeah.

Steve: 23:59

I need to hear that because I need people to like me more than anything.

Kristen: 24:04

Exactly. Exactly. And it's its own set of like props, you know? Mm-hmm. and that's what Al-Anon is for. Yeah. The Secret. Aa. The sequel. Alanon. Mm-hmm.

Steve: 24:18

Yeah. And if someone is listening right now and is struggling in their sobriety, what advice would you have for them? I

Kristen: 24:25

mean, go to a meeting, call your sponsor, Yeah. Read the literature. Make three phone calls. I mean, that's the funny thing about AI advice that's different from friend advice or therapy advice. It's so simple, you know? there is no other answer. Mm-hmm. And if you've done all that stuff and you still have a question, like there might not be an answer right now. Like that's the thing about like with ruts, we might just have to be in a rut. Yeah. Like that's powerlessness, right? That's step one. Sometimes you're just like, wow, this isn't that fun or profound or meaningful. Wow. I'm so sorry that being sober isn't exciting for you right now. you know, like crimey of fucking rivers, sometimes you're in a rush. And so that's what I would say, but also like it'll probably pass cuz everything does. but I'm in it right now, so I also don't have, you know, call someone with more sobriety than me, cuz right now this is the problem of living rather than one that I have solved

Steve: 25:19

Sounds good. Well thank you so much for coming back on and talking about overcoming those ruts in sobriety.

Kristen: 25:25

Yeah. Noah, thanks for having me. It's always so fun to talk to you.

Steve: 25:28

Yes. And this is normally the point where we would plug your socials, but they don't exist. No, they're secret. So instead, I will plug mine. You can follow me at gay podcast on Instagram or email me@gaypodcastgmail.com. If you want more, Kristen, definitely head on over to our Paton page cuz we're gonna head on over there for our post show where we're gonna talk about our experiences sponsoring. And if you want to share your story or again involved, email me and follow us wherever you're listening so you can get new episodes when they come out every Thursday. Until next time, stay sober friends.