Sex in Recovery ft. Frank

Steve welcomes back friend of the podcast, Frank, to discuss connecting with and embracing your sexuality in recovery.

For more Frank,  follow them on IG @manyourstyle - and follow us while you are at it @gayapodcast

Check out our Post-Show to hear us talk more about our steamier sexual encounters in recovery at www.patreon.com/gayapodcast

Until next time, stay sober friends!

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Transcript

Steve: 0:57

Hi everyone and welcome to Gay a, a podcast about sobriety for the LGBT plus community and our allies. I'm your host, Steve Bennett. Martin. I am an alcoholic and I'm grateful for embracing my sexuality and recovery. As of this recording, I am a 627 day sober, and today we're welcoming back friend of the Pod Frank to talk about sex and recovery. Welcome back.

Frank: 1:20

Hello. Thank you. Thank you for having me back. It's, it's really great to be here.

Steve: 1:24

Yes. And I know it feels like just yesterday that we were on getting to know you better. But why don't you reintroduce yourself for listeners who might have missed your first episode.

Frank: 1:33

Sure. So a little bit of background. I am nearly 11 and a half years sober. And I. It's you know, it's, it really does feel like I was just here. It's it's funny how just in the last like year or two, you know, coming outta the pandemic, how just everything is sort of back to this wild speed that things are. And you know but yet here we are months later and yeah, still sober, still doing the thing. And also grateful to embrace my sexuality in

Steve: 2:05

recovery. Yes. Wonderful. Yes. And we started talking about it on Instagram and then I quickly realized that this would make a great episode. But in your opinion, why, out of all the things we could talk about now, would you choose sex?

Frank: 2:21

Well, I really feel like, and I think it's gotten better, but I still feel that it's just not talked enough about in recovery and, and how in recovery, Myself, people, we can be sober sluts in recovery without feeling shame. You know, and I feel like having a space where we feel comfortable to share and be is very important because otherwise we may. hide what we are doing, which I find to be very unhealthy in recovery, not just with sexual things, but in general. Like if we're not being open about what we're doing you know, from my experience, those things can lead down kind of crazy paths. Yeah.

Steve: 3:08

And which came first for you? Sex or alcohol and drugs.

Frank: 3:15

Sex came first. For me, that was probably one of my first outlets of acting out at a very young age of either 13 or 14. And finding alcohol about a year later. But. it's was immediately off to the races for me when it, with the sex, like I was immediately that sort of first experience that I had I wanted more immediately. And, you know, and that consistent sort of pattern of what pattern of wanting more has just continued, you know, and it's not just related to those things, but things in general from shopping, eating I always want more

Steve: 3:54

Yes, I, I definitely suffer from the disease of more as. But with sex especially coming like so quickly or like around the time that like alcohol like introduced, was introduced into your life, how do you feel they played a role with each other?

Frank: 4:11

So for me, I drank, I drank a long time before I ever used drugs. And so having seen sort of both of those Sort of outlets you know, drinking what sex looked like for me. When I drank, I was a blackout drinker, so it was mainly piecing the bits of the puzzle together The next day trying to figure out did I have sex last night? My door was. kind of left open and my clothes are in kind of a disarray or, you know, things of that nature or like, I can't find my underwear. I'm not wearing underwear or clothes, but I have no idea how I got here. You know, so that was kind of what it looked like when I drank. But then that was sort of the, the opposite when I started to use hard drugs, you know, and again I have a pattern of. all in or nothing, you know? So when I drank, it was the hardest. And when I started using drugs, the first drug I did was crystal and it was immediately off to the races. So with using drugs, I remembered every single thing for the most part of what I did and what I was doing from a sex point of view. It was just a lot. Sex. I can have a lot more sex when I'm using drugs than when I'm drinking and, you know, but those things were so deeply intertwined that I had no idea how to be a sexual person when I came into recovery because of how deeply wound up those things. together more so, even more so with drugs than alcohol because using drugs allowed me to be sexual in a way that I surely could not be when I was drunk.

Steve: 6:04

Yeah, I can really, especially with the, the alcohol especially. Like back in my college days, there were that, those nights where I was like, there was no way I was able to give consent, but I was like, did I have sex? Like it feels like I had sex. I think I had sex, but I don't, I, you know, I don't have any memory of it. And it was never a good feeling. And you think that that would have me stop, but instead I just kept going.

Frank: 6:27

Totally the same. I mean, I would, you know, sort of like look around, try to figure out little pieces, you know, like they're like lube bottles around or, you know, checking, you know checking around, you know, on myself, like, you know, are there any, are there any fluids on me? You know, like it was always, you know, a puzzle of. what did I do?

Steve: 6:51

Yeah, I don't miss that puzzle. Um-mm. and then, you know, especially with drugs and sex kind of going so intertwined. What was it like untangling that in recovery?

Frank: 7:02

Untangling that in recovery was, for me, was taking the suggestion of putting those things on the shelf and. I originally got sober in Chicago and and so it it was one of those strong suggestions that, I'm not telling you to do this, but I strongly recommend you do this. It's like, okay, I under, I, I understood and you know, there were parts of that that I did not understand, and that in that moment and in that head space, I was sort of like, I really don't understand why I have to do this, but I'm gonna do it anyway. I'm going to put this on the shelf and revisit it, you know? And, and that's what he did. Like I really did not. to I didn't dive into really anything sexual and definitely not anything romantic in that first year of sobriety. And, you know, sort of what those thoughts look like several years in recovery is, oh, I had no business putting anyone in sort of my path during that time. I had no fucking idea of like who I was or what I wanted, and I surely had no business of. Involving anyone in that while I figured out who I was because coming into the rooms I had no idea who I was or what I wanted. You know, when it came to sexual ideal deals or sort of the dream partner, like, I had no concept of that, and so I really had to do the work to figure that. before involving anyone else into those pictures?

Steve: 8:44

Yeah. And a, after doing all of that work, when did you feel, or how did you know when you were ready to dip your toe back out there again?

Frank: 8:54

I mean I I guess for me, like one of the big things was very much the opposite of sort of the actions that he took when I was using is I really started to ask questions. Getting back out there I sort of eased my way back into even using apps and things of that. I also for me, one of the big things, I surrounded myself. I knew that I wanted to be very much to still be a very social person in bars and things of that. And so I knew of a group of. Sober people with time in Chicago who enjoyed being in those spaces, who like going out, they liked going to dance clubs and bath houses and and so I really started to sort of hang around those individuals and and start to just kind of get comfortable in those spaces. And I really accredit that for being where I am today and being very much comfortable in a bar setting without having any desire to drink or use drugs.

Steve: 10:00

Yeah, and especially when you find yourself in those situations, when do you know that, like when to call it quits or when to go home versus when you know all green lights, ships, you know, ready to go?

Frank: 10:15

Yeah. So, you know, one of the, one of the tools that I learned from that group of individuals was sort of bookending you know, If we were in sort of a bathhouse situation, you know, a lot of times we would get split up and, you know, quite possibly not reconnect post event, if you will. And so, you know, it really was about informing where I was going. And then if I was separated from this group of people checking in all of us checking in at the end of the night when we got home. I made it home. I'm still sober. I'm going to bed. You know, and sort of just getting into sort of that habit and and just kind of going from there. And you know, the, for me, like when I'm out it's really just listening to my gut and I just know it's kind of hard to describe, but I know from my gut when it's time to go you know, you know, could be something where I'm getting, I find myself getting annoyed. I do have a very low to tolerance for overly drunk individuals. And so that can really push my buttons. And, and so I know this about me and I know that when those buttons start getting pushed, that it's like that for me. It's like it's time to go home. Yeah. It's no longer fun. It's

Steve: 11:37

time to go. Yeah, I can, I can imagine. Yeah, I'm lucky that my, my husband isn't much of a, a drinker. He was always one of those like weirdos that could have like half a glass and be okay leaving the rest over hours, which was insane to me. But so it like doesn't really enter a relationship, but I can imagine like if I was single and out there, like how much, like, of a turnoff, it could be just like being with someone who's like getting. or like,

Frank: 12:02

yes. Yeah. Yeah. And, and like you, like my, my ex-husband was sort of the same, was very much a social drinker with someone who could leave half a glass of wine on the table and be perfectly fine. Which I too, I always found That's so fascinating that one could do that. Yeah. Cause that was definitely not, that was not the case for me. There was nothing left in that glass when I was drinking Yeah.

Steve: 12:28

And. Even being in a relationship, I've learned that it's important, like I talk about sex and communicate with my partner, like my husband more now in like recovery than I ever did before. Have you experienced like communication improving or changing with the way you approach

Frank: 12:43

sex? Oh, absolutely. Communication is key. For sure that I find you know, I am very direct and direct about my h hiv status right away. I make it known that I am not I don't use drugs, I'm sober. You know, like those are things like right off the bat especially depending on the time of night, you know, there's sort of this bewitching hour between two and 3:00 AM where sort of things shift, you know, if you will. And so I've learned that. if I'm sort of cruising for sex post 2:00 AM you know, it turns into a very different crowd, and so it's probably best to sort of shut the door on that and go to bed. Versus continuing that I was gonna

Steve: 13:31

say my, my eyes are popping outta my head just because I'm like an old, married person. So the idea of being up at that time, let alone being up for Dick, like, I'm just like, I love my sleep so much that like, I can't, I can imagine even if I was single, like still, I'd be like, I'm the type of go to bed at 10 or 11. Like if, if I was up at three foot, I'd rub it out and go back to bed. Like there's no need to hit an app at that time.

Frank: 13:54

Yes. Well, and I mean, honestly, that's probably the best thing that one could do because yeah, I have found that most, most of the, the crowds at that point or are moving onto other things. And so yes, probably rubbing one out is probably the most ideal thing that one could do as this over an individual. But you know, I mean, I in recovery, like I. I have done, you know, things in like bars, like being out to 5, 5, 6 o'clock in the morning sober, which you know, I definitely do not go do those evenings very often. But you know, it is experiences like that when I do happen. It's like, oh, I can do this sober. You know, if I want, if I choose. And and have a great time and. I always find it funny that even at this stage in my life, like I still find myself getting comfortable in waves that I never imagined. And you know, I love to go out and I love to have fun and I always find it funny when I'm out dancing, have a really great time and more than once, someone has said to me like, how much have you had to. and I'm like, I've had nothing to drink. And they're just like mind blown that I'm able to like be on the dance floor getting wild and crazy without having anything in me, you know, substance wise or, or alcohol. And you know, and I always usually follow it up with like, imagine when I did drink and use drugs. Yeah. Like if you think that's wild and crazy. Imagine when I was using substances

Steve: 15:30

Yeah. And speaking of wild and crazy, what's it been like exploring your boundaries and your body and positivity with sex?

Frank: 15:42

it has been, it has been a journey. I have found that, you know, when I was, when I was using drugs and things of that, like I really didn't. I really had one function and that was to bottom because I knew that that worked. And I was able to make that work. I really didn't know other body parts really worked. Mm-hmm. Then, and so, you know, I was strictly one-sided and, you know, sort of the beauty of, of being sober over the years, like I realized like, oh, these other parts work in ways. I never released used them. Yeah. And so go figure. It's amazing, you know the things one discovers when you, you know, aren't using drugs and things of that. And so, you know, I find in my thirties that I've become much more versatile and much more open-minded with sex and being comfortable in not just being on the bottom, but also topping or flipping or things of that which, in return open a whole nother door of sort of adventures that you know, I can allow myself to go sort of back and forth when, depending on, you know, sort of what I'm feeling and not be so constricted to sort of like one avenue, if you will. Which has been really amazing. And you know, I. Was married at one point in my thirties, got divorced. One of the things that I learned in that you know, when it comes to sex being a very sort of organic person that when it comes to sex and being very open-minded, king friendly and all of those things in that relationship, I sort of put all those things in a box and thought I could just put a lid on it and put it in the corner and like forget about it. Well surprised like that those things don't go away just because you get into a relationship and think that you could just put a lid on it and be done with it. And you know, that was sort of one of the things that. Sort of learned the hard way in that relationship that I'm probably best fit it for an open relationship you know, going forward, which was really an ideal that I learned out of that. And, you know, coming out of that relationship Getting a lot more comfortable in my skin and in my body and spaces and you know, I don't have the dream gym body that, you know, is splashed across every page in America and globally at that po for that matter. You know, like that's not my body type, but you know, over the years it's just getting comfortable. Putting on the bikini and just going out, you know, like for me, like that's how I do it, like by doing the thing. Like that's the only way that I get comfortable

Steve: 18:23

and look what good doing it.

Frank: 18:24

Might I add? Thank you. You know, I mean, do you agree like I think half the battle is like doing the thing, putting on the short shorts or the skimpy outfit or whatever the thing is and just going

Steve: 18:37

out Yeah, I definitely do the thing, I mean, I realized that like at my last, at last year's gsm like, which was like my first real like round up our conference. I was like, I had so many different outfit options and like I went with the skims one each time and it was just like, just learning to be comfortable in my body cuz it's like, I might not be everybody's type, but I'll be someone's type and that person is gonna be like bonkers for me. And so I just have to find that one person. It's not a matter of like finding a million people.

Frank: 19:05

Totally. And, and that's sort of the beauty of it. It's just, you know, allowing yourself to be comfortable and, and just owning who you are and Yeah. It's like I don't seek other people's approval for like, for what I'm doing or what I'm wearing and, you know, if someone isn't comfortable with what I'm wearing, it's kind of like, oh, well it's not, it's not my problem. Yeah. You know, and I love, I love when I travel and I'm very unap. myself, anywhere that I go for the most part. And you know, and I love, I love when I see how I make someone uncomfortable. Mm-hmm. you know, because that You know, there's just something to be said about that, of just owning who you are and being yourself and, and just seeing sort of like others who are uncomfortable with that, you know, which is a sign of like something within their own selves that they need to figure out. And that's not my problem. I'm going to be me and you know, and maybe in some shape or form that, you know, myself being myself will help another individual. who knows? But Yeah.

Steve: 20:13

And one thing, especially back when I was like out on the scene and single and drinking that I never said no. Like, do you have more, like not only better communication, but like more ideals and boundaries in place when it comes to your wants and your needs and what that looks like.

Frank: 20:32

Yes, absolutely. You know, doing through a, a lot of that really has come through step work. Writing out the sex inventories, writing out the sex ideals and the, and the partners. Giving myself a better idea of what I want, what I want and what I don't want. And a partner which is very much the opposite of before sobriety and. And so, yeah, so, you know, I, I tend to try to be as organic as possible when it comes to more so I guess with sort of a dating from a dating point of view. Mm-hmm. I try, I try not to put a lot of sort of I try not to cons, restric. Sort of those parameters if you will. And just try to be sort of as open as possible. You know, cause I find when I start, when I start writing out like even more specifically of like looking for something very specific that, you know, I may end up missing out on something that may be worth. Yeah.

Steve: 21:36

Excellent. And describe one of your favorite sober sexual encounters.

Frank: 21:43

Well, favorite, favorite sexual encounters. So that, for me, like in recovery tends to, tends to change quite frequently depending on sort of, timing or you know, where I've been and that year. And so, you know, I would say for me, like one of, one of my favorite was recently I was in Port Teva and it was my first time in Mexico. I ended up going to the first half of Beef Tip, which is one of the biggest spare weeks in the world completely by accident. I had no idea when I booked those dates that that was happening. And that place in general was a magical place where I truly felt comfortable in my skin across the board, like within the, the local community and everything. But from a sexual point of view, I mean, I sort of had group sex in the cave. Didn't know that that was like a, a box to sort of check, but, you know, check the box of having, I was gonna

Steve: 22:43

say, I'm adding it to my bucket list right now.

Frank: 22:46

Yes. Having hot, magical sex in a cave. Sure. I had no idea. You know, so like that and you know, and that experience like across the board from like top to bottom I really had the. Experiences from being submissive to being dominating. It really was just sexual from a sexual point of view. Like that trip was, I had just so many amazing sexual experiences and, you know, and just some that I just didn't even know that were even out there to do.

Steve: 23:24

Excellent. We'll have to talk more about that later do you have any advice for someone listening if they're struggling with connecting with their sexual side in recovery?

Frank: 23:35

Sure. So I would say give yourself time to heal. If you're new to recovery or coming back, just really give yourself the time. Do the work to. The, the path from the future and to take a break from those things and really discover your ideals.

Steve: 23:55

Perfect. And any last words

Frank: 23:58

of wisdom? I would just say you know, have fun for me, like just, yeah, really just have fun and explore and, you know, check in with yourself and just let loose and have a good time, you know, put sobriety first and after that, you know, just enjoy yourself.

Steve: 24:20

Perfect. Wonderful. And how can our listeners find you if they wanted to get in touch with you?

Frank: 24:26

Sure. So you can find me on the Instagram at Man Your style. That's m a n y O u r s T Y L E at Man, your style. Perfect. Excellent.

Steve: 24:40

Well, thank you so much, Frank. Thank you for having me. Yes. And stick around for our post show where Patreon family members can head on over to patreon.com/gay a and hear us talk more about our experiences with Sex and recovery. Meanwhile, if you're interested in sharing your story or just saying, hi me, email away at gay, a podcast@gmail.com or on Instagram at gay a podcast. And be sure to follow us wherever your listening so you can get these new episodes when they come out every. Until next time, stay sober friends.