Race in Recovery ft. The Blackyard Collective

Steve welcomes Michael, Delano, and Chris from the Blackyard Collective on to discuss how their race affected their addictions and their experiences navigating recovery, along with building a community.

To hear more check out our Patreon page for a free bonus episode to everyone and anyone that want's to check it out at www.patreon.com/gayapodcast

To learn more about the Blackyard Collective, go to https://www.theblackyardcollectivenyc.org/

To follow them on their socials, @TheBlackyardCollectiveNYC , Chris is @cprgivesyoulife , Delano is theodorehuxtable, and Michael is MJ Crumpler on Facebook

Transcript

Steve: 0:03

Hi everyone and welcome to Gay a, a podcast about sobriety for the LGBT plus community and our allies. I'm your host, Steve Bennet-martin. I am an alcoholic and am grateful for my favorite TV show. Buffy the Vampire Slayer. As of this recording, I am 640 days sober, and today we're welcoming back friends of the Pod, Delano and Chris, along with a new friend of the podcast to From The Black Yard Collective to discuss races it pertains to both addiction and recovery. Welcome everyone. Thank you.

Michael: 0:35

It's gonna be back.

Steve: 0:36

Yes. And this is the most guests I've ever ha had on an episode at one time. So this will be a fun journey. I'm excited for it. But yes Delano, you, you were the one who originally reached out to me about this episode and coming back. So why don't we start with you intro, reintroduce yourself for anyone who may missed your first episode.

Delano: 0:54

Hey everybody. My name is Delano Burrows and I'm one of the co-founders of the Blackard Collective. My sober date is March 10th, 2012, and. I am so grateful for the Blackard Collective. I'm so grateful for recovery. Everything I have in my life in some way is tied to my sobriety, and especially these two, like beautiful people that are so important in my life, Chris and Michael. And to be able to share this with them and talk about, you know, they're like my family. It, it goes that deep and I'm just, I'm so happy to be here. And Excellent.

Steve: 1:28

And Chris, you're no stranger to the pod. Why don't you go next and reintroduce

Chris: 1:32

yourself? I'm. Hey y'all. Chris Kosso etic. My sobriety date is July 28th, 2015. Yeah. I'm excited to be back in this podcast. I'm excited to be back here with Delano and Michael talking about some of the work that we have been doing for about the last seven plus years. And thank you so much for giving us this platform to speak about it. Yeah,

Steve: 1:49

perfect. And Michael, I got the pleasure of getting to know you a little bit better before we hit record, but why don't you introduce yourself to the listen.

Michael: 1:58

Yeah, I am Michael. I am been sober now for 11 and a half years. I live in Brooklyn. I am also a, a, a, an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ and work for the Unitarian Universal Association, where I get to also do queer and anti-racism work, what we call ministry. Excellent. And

Steve: 2:23

whichever one of you wants to start, but why don't we share what the Blackard Collective

Michael: 2:27

is? Michael. Sure. So I will read the technical definition of the Blackard Collective, but essentially the Black Yard Collective is. A network of black, queer and trans people recovering from the disease of addiction and alcoholism, whose goal is to build and sustain a community of care, grounded in self-love and mutual respect. We host shared meals, social gatherings and spiritual retreats that center queerness, blackness, and wellness in order to uplift the dignity of our identities and experiences so that we. Live free from the bondage of addiction and alcoholism. That is the textbook definition of who we are, but we are full on black Kiki Blackie, black, black Kiki of people in recovery living together, loving one another and just really just trying to help each other get through this thing called life and sober and free.

Steve: 3:23

Yeah, I love both ways you describe it and why this topic l and.

Delano: 3:33

Well, you know, I, when I first came into recovery 13 years ago, it was a very white space and then, To be able to, and I had a lot of trauma around race and connection and the intersectionality and queerness and blackness and how that manifested in my addiction. And then I came in and, you know, so such a, a mantra, be vulnerable, be open. But also I was in spaces where I was fetishized and categorized in ways that prevented or I was inhibit. Felt inhibited about being open and vulnerable and to be able to connect to these people. It added such a different layer to my sobriety, but also to like my connection to myself and to be able to connect about blackness and queerness and talk about things where I wouldn't feel comfortable talking about in maybe more homogenous, you know, rooms and everything. I have, as I said earlier, Is connected to like these beautiful people, and I want as many people to have opportunity to, to, to, to get better. To be able to access that as I did and seeing people from all over the world come to our meetings and talk about transformative, it's been for their recovery and to be able to talk about things they've never been able to talk about before is magical. That room is magical. When we meet up and we Kiki and we laugh and we cry and we hold each other and support each other, it's really just magic. Yeah,

Steve: 5:01

I can imagine. Well, I will let you all lead the discussion from here.

Chris: 5:07

Thank you Steve so much. So yeah, we hopped on a call before this dish, sort of talk about the things that we thought would be really important to discuss and for me, you know, I think just sort of our origin story with how we started is really important. So You know, I came into the program after Michael and Delano and my first meeting was a very small meeting in Brooklyn and I just, Delano was also there, there were other black folks in the room, and I'm so grateful for that because Delano told me to come to a, a meeting the next night. And at that meeting I met Michael, who then became my sponsor. And from there we just sort of started to. Community in small ways. It was just saying hello when we saw each other at every meeting. And like, you know, Michael became my sponsor shortly after I joined the program. And, and you know, I think there just really became a concerted effort to like say hello to the other black people in this space. And so Michael, you really described that really beautiful. Why don't you share us a little bit about your experience and why you thought it was important for us to do more than just know each other at a meeting.

Michael: 6:09

Yeah. Thanks Chris. And yes, it was beautiful to have you come into the, to the meeting and having you come into the fellowship and larger fellowship was just such a powerful experience. Just by virtue of, of who you are. And, and for me, it really highlighted the need for us to, to connect. But so when I got sober in 2011, I was in North Carolina and I went to aa, na, and c m a, and you know, I had only ever used crystal meth. I had only ever used crystal meth, and I had used it for about about three. And so I would go to the AA meetings and you know, they were normal. They weren't any kind of a specialty atopic meeting. Everyone was there, young, old white, black. Women, men I think maybe me and maybe one or two other people were, were gay in a room, predominantly black, but also just had a different culture to it. But, but, but very diverse. But the seat, the crystal meth meeting that I went to was very white. That doesn't not. There was, there were, and when I say very white, I just mean like, that was the culture of the meeting. Even though there were those of us who were black in the room, the culture of the meeting was like this white, cis male gay space. And I loved it because I could identify with the With the experience of being gay and an addict and, you know, middle class and professional but yet going through this very sexualized experience. And so I loved it and I hated it at the same time because it, it seemed as though the recovery in that space began to sort of like You know, like crystallized, for lack of a better word, around

Delano: 8:01

just around

Michael: 8:02

the experience around like a white gay experience. Like, you know, a gay, you know what I, what, and I wouldn't have defined it as white at the time, but it seemed it, whatever it was, seemed very, very, like weird. And I would see black people come into the space and, and, and feel uncomfortable even. Even as they continue to stay sober. And that was in North Carolina. I moved to New York shortly after that to come to grad school, which to, you know, after, to seminary to finish my studies towards my Master of Divinity. And my experience there was very much involved in Black Liberation Theology, which is basically, A theological concept that that, that, that, that teaches that, you know, God is on the side of the oppressed. That, that, that a divine being, if there is one, and if that divine being is particularly to be identified with, with the Christ that that. That those people are, are, are centered in the intention of God. And so essentially black liberation theology and, and as well as like this black, black philosophy kind of taught me in seminary that that I am divine, that I am I am not a mistake. That I am not a, a a, you know, an afterthought of God. And so, Kind

Delano: 9:23

of

Michael: 9:25

helped me to reimagine all of my spaces, not just my, my religious life, but my family life and most certainly my recovery life. Like, you know that. And so therefore I began to look at my recovery and my recovery community is like, you know, where is. Where is the the, the, where is, where is my recovery centered and who are we centering in recovery? Certainly those who are seeking recovery from the drug of addiction. But when people of marginalized identity come into the room. How are they, how are they treated? How do, how, how are they seen? So then that be, and I, and that began with me before everybody was anybody. But after having this growing consciousness and awareness of. Of what we call the preferential option of the poor. I began to think more about, you know, those without means and without privilege and how they can get sober. So I began to connect more with people in the rooms. I've been kind of been thinking about like, what is my recovery about if it's not centering those that look like me. Mm-hmm. And, and. And to make a long story short, I just, I had known Delano for, you know, some time as this transformation was happening in, in myself, and I realized that, wait a minute, there are black people in the room that I don't even know, that I'm not even connected with. How can I have a. How can I have a resentment a against the program for not being connected? So that began with just and then Chris became my sponsee was my second black sponsee. And, and I said, you know what? Why don't we, why don't we just make time to be with one another? And so we started a monthly brunch and that's kind of how it all began.

Chris: 11:04

And Delano, I mean, what were your experiences with the brunches? Talk to me about, a little bit about the brunches and what those were like for you and yeah, the difficulties, the brun that are ha that came up in them.

Delano: 11:16

The brunches to me were everything I ever wanted, but also everything that I was scared of at the same time. Do you know I grew up in a very. White town in Massachusetts, and I never felt I was black enough. I never, especially around, and I didn't feel like I was queer enough. And so around queer people, I was like, I feel I'm too black and I don't really connect. And, but all this idea of like, I just, I don't fit like what I felt society says is a black person, which is my own stuff. And so I always wanted to, like, I never had a close black friend in my life because I never felt. I don't know. I just internalized so much this idea that I'm lesser than, and it's profound. And so I think I was just sweating in every like orifice, like my body before that first brunch. And this idea, like my body was tense of like, oh, this anticipation, you know, I'm gonna do this thing that I've always dreamed about. Starting to connect with people, but also, what if they reject? You know? Mm-hmm. And, and it didn't happen overnight, like that first brunch. But I was like, but gradually and, but quickly I start to loosen up like literally and just like relax into myself and be like, oh no, I can be myself. Cuz before recovery, everything that came outta my mouth was trying to convince people that I was worthy of connection. Mm-hmm. You know, everything was a lie. And all of a sudden it is like, oh no, it's exact opposite. By being myself, by talking about stuff that I had so much shame about and these other people like, oh, me too, me too. But in those brunches too, it wasn't just in a meeting where it's like, you know, and meetings, of course they're amazing, but it was also black joy. Mm-hmm. You know? Cause we were talking about stuff, but we were laughing and we're eating, we're playing music and laughing at the same time. And I think that's crucial. And I remember.

Michael: 13:05

You know, to have that space. I'm just gonna cut to jump in here because, because that part is beautiful. But like, I think what I remember most about beginning of these brunches is setting the parameters for that, for the, for that, for that joy to happen. Yes. And because we all had so many, like, entrenched relationships with white people Who, I mean, and that mean like our roommates were white, our partners were white, or you know, whatever you wanna call'em, were white. Like, like, like it, there was this weirdness around like, what does it mean for us to get, for us to connect? Mm-hmm. Now in 2023, it sounds stupid, right? But in 2016 before George Floyd, before Covid, before all the things you know, you're talking people coming right out from active addiction. Into recovery who probably missed whatever activism was happening on the street, whatever, like public dialogue that was happening. So like how do you create a space? Do you just begin to meet? What happens if you have a white roommate? What happens if you have a partner? What happens if you have, like, so setting up those parameters were very, very important. And that it included, you know, if you had a white roommate asking them not to be in the space for a few hours on that day, it included. Not bringing your partner or best friend who was not black, just protecting that space and keeping it open. It included going up to people in meetings and like who were black and ask and telling them about it and just being like, Hey, we have a brunch, a brunch, a monthly brunch that we would love to invite you to, and, and that takes a lot of courage just to walk up to somebody that you don't know and you know, and be like, Hey, come to this thing that's black, and then white people are around, and if they're standing there, Being okay with you inviting this person, without them overhearing it and not being invited. Like all of those things, I think were what set the The stage, if you will for creating a, a, a, a safe space, or as I like to call it, a brave space. Mm-hmm. So that we could, we could be without being disruptive and and also being able to have conversations with, you know with our white friends or roommate or whomever about what we needed and why it was important, which was something that was new for me. Mm-hmm.

Chris: 15:06

Yeah, absolutely. Go ahead, Dylan. Like, oh, no, no, but.

Delano: 15:10

But along with what you said is being okay with, but also being okay when we weren't. Okay. Cuz we leaned into each other and realized, oh, this is awkward. I'm not used to sending these boundaries and being like, Hey, I'm gonna prioritize blackness and, and be able to, I remember the, the first time we decided to post a photo and the, you know, just amongst, and we were just sweating like, oh my God, what does this mean? What is everybody gonna think? And that seems like it was seven years ago, but it seems like a lifetime. We have so much pride about this, you know, this thing that we created, but back then realized how deeply we internalized, what are they, capital t gonna think about us? Mm-hmm.

Michael: 15:49

Mm-hmm.

Chris: 15:50

Yeah. And I, yeah, no, yeah. Yeah. And I, I, I will just add to that, like it was really powerful for me to just like be able to like know that I can like, Take up space and claim space even in my own home, right? Like mm-hmm. Which was not something that I ever felt like I, I could do, you know? Mm-hmm. Like having the reminder from you all to just be like, it's also your home. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You wanna host a thing once every three months or whatever for a few hours a day that you absolutely are allowed to do that. You know? And having the five or six of us, like Yeah, do that. It just was, it was just really, really, really empower, powerful and like really was one of the first examples of reminding me that I have agency and teaching me that I have agency, you know, which I think is a huge thing that I've gotten in sobriety. Yeah. And so then, you know, Michael, you sort of touched about this a little bit, about just sort of like being intentional about saying hello to the people of color that were walking to the door for the first time. You know, I

Michael: 16:48

know now people of color, black people,

Chris: 16:50

black people. Well, yes. I say when I, let's

Michael: 16:54

be clear. You know, I will say for

Chris: 17:00

myself being in the rooms for a while and watching the black folks specifically and myself specifically, you know, people didn't flock to me. Yes, I do have some pretty privilege and like pe there people did flock to me, but watching like my white peers and, and my, my litter mates come in and the way that the fellowship engulfed them and really like swooped them up and they didn't do that for me. Having, having I guess the, the, or giving myself the permission to do that for black folks was really, really, really powerful. And to, and, and to remind myself that like my sobriety is not necessarily always my own. It is for the person who walks into the door to see that like a black person can get time. Yeah. Cause I didn't see, there wasn't a lot of examples of that here in New York, in Crystal meth Anonymous. Right. And so, having you, Dylan, having you, Michael, were great examples of that. But it also reminded me that like, you know, my sobriety also has a larger purpose. Mm-hmm. So what has been your experience with those things? Or can you add anything to that? You know, I just feel like, yeah, yeah. I mean, I, one of the things

18:03

I

Michael: 18:03

thought of right at the end of what you said was that there, interestingly, I've heard from those who have even more time than I had, who had, like, you know, up in the teens and, and low twenties of of time, who came in before us, who had. Kind of becomes so, sort of numb and, and, and, and sort of maybe even complacent. Like it's always gonna be wide. It's never gonna be, and they talk about the infusion of energy that happened after we began hosting, hosting the brunches, and as they continue to grow. And then to go back and revisit something that Delano said, which is really, really powerful about posting a group photo with only us in it, even though we were only, we were the only ones there anyway, but. That our own internalized, you know, anti-blackness had even presented us from wanting to be seen together. And, and kind of, kind of created a fear even though no one was threatening. So just being able to do something like that, knowing that people would be like, why are they all together? Why aren't, or even make like comments that were, that were offensive, but. Unintentionally offensive, like, you know, weird comments about our sexuality and a comment and a picture we just posted when all of our clothes were on people that we knew people were, and also to feel I began to immediately feel, I don't know about Chris and, and Delano, I began to immediately feel like the anxiety that, that this raised in other people. And honestly, it, it. I mean, not that, not that I had, not that we were like close friends anyway. I would say my, that my close friends continued to be friends with me, but because folks perceived me as dividing the fellowship or, or, or causing division or, or racializing the fellowship I, it certainly there was a, there was a cost to that and it was, and it was painful for people to perceive me as angry or threatening. Or problematic just because just because. Had a particular concern for black people's wellbeing in, in, in the fellowship. And, and not that I stopped doing any of the other things that I was doing right. I was correct. At the same time, I was still doing service in other areas. Like all the things I was, like the chair of N Y C M A, I was the treasurer. I was h and i chair, I was chairing meetings. I was sponsoring white people. Like, it wasn't like I was like, I'm not doing anything else but this. Mm-hmm. It was like, I'm, I'll do this and that I can create this community within our fellowship and, and, and, and lead that community while I'm also doing other things, while I'm also also available to, to lead all of the d e i that all everyone wanted us to, to, to lead. So, so it was, it was an interesting time, but but nothing was surpassed the joy that. That has come out of it. Yeah.

Delano: 20:52

And I think just to add, just to exactly what you said, Michael, is like all the stuff that we're doing with like Ike Andina and the Blackard collective, that's, and cuz we're all, all three of us are very, very connected to C M A and do service and all aspects. And not just, we're not only, this is in addition to our sobriety. Mm-hmm.

Michael: 21:14

You

Chris: 21:14

know, him. And so, You know, one of the things I've noticed is like, We started to do our own thing. We got a lot of pushback, but the fellowships started to change, right? Mm-hmm. Cause of the work that we were doing, the fellowships started to change. Not only were were black people staying, but like the Spanish speaking community was also starting to stay. Mm-hmm. They were going to build their own tables and their own safe spaces, which has been really beautiful to watch. And I love that. I love that. Like us just deciding that we wanted to get to know each other better has had such a larger impact on the fellowship here in New York as a whole. Mm-hmm. And you know, Then Covid happens, right? And we were forced to pivot, right? We were used to connecting and seeing each other at meetings and, and, and having our brunches. And then we were told we can't leave. And so then we decided to pivot and we decided to have a Zoom meeting. And so Dylan, why don't you talk a little bit about that. What happened with I. Which our meeting our, the name of our bruns were was I andina. So like all it was, it's funny, I love it. It is like it is, it is so great and when people first hear it, they don't get it. But that's okay. It's not for them to get,

Michael: 22:31

but those who do get it, get it. Those are

Delano: 22:36

get it. And you and I just say the fact that we pivoted to. Zoom. It saved me because right before that, right before Covid, a month before my dad had died, and then I went to be with my mom in Massachusetts and it's all the way down and then Black Lives Matter awareness is happening and people are marching all over and I want to be connected to y'all in New York or wherever, and I'm in this place, this all white place where I've always had conflicted emotions and to be able to like be there for my. You know, support her and then go upstairs and go in those zooms and be able to talk about all my anger, all the things I was holding in grief, everything, and just break down and be like, I don't have to be strong right here. I can be real. You know? Because I learned that in those brunches and to share like, Hey, I can't do this. I really want to use either grief. Everything is so much, and just, all right, I can hold on a little bit more longer. You know, and just be able to connect with everybody and be supported. It meant everything and to see how people were connecting and how those zooms became bigger and bigger in the word of mouth and people coming from all over the country. We got people coming from Canada and Europe and all over and be able to say, and, and that light in people's eyes of. I didn't know how much I needed this until now and be like, oh my God, this is everything. And, and as I said, I'm so grateful for my recovery, but seeing this light in other people, seeing, hearing Chris, I just cannot. When you talked about that first meeting, I remember where you were, even where you're sitting in the chair. I remember everything and you've frightened. And the fact that Chris now is the chair of Spring Clarence, which is this big deal, this recovery retreat that happens once a year, hundreds of people come from all over the world. And I remember that person hiding in that corner in Brooklyn. And now this person, they are powerful beyond anything that I could ever imagined. And it just, it just, It means everything, you know? And also, like all three of us have had a parent die in, in recovery. We've had intense grief. And to be able to talk about those things and share and connect and just hold each other up, you know, and that's what we get to do with the Zoom. It wasn't New York centric and now it's all, it's, it's all over and people are really, it's this profound connection that I've made. There's some people I've never met in person, but I trust. I trust them. I know they, they're ride or dies. They got my back from those meetings. All from those zoom meetings. Yeah. And it means it's everything

Chris: 25:22

that is a great segue, I think, to go into like the Blackard collective, like it's because of the success of our Zoom, and then our subsequent first Juneteenth celebration, which we did, is why we decided to step out and make an actual nonprofit, right? The Blackard Collective. We saw the value that we had. Excuse me. And the reach that we had and we wanted to do more and we wanted to be able to give, offer more mutual aid and offer more resources for folks. And the only way that we could really do that ethically,

Michael: 25:52

It's just there's ways to do it. Yes, exactly. I said, so Michael, why

Chris: 26:04

don't you talk about that sort of like transition from like the Zoom and like our large, large, huge network that is international at this point? Europe and Canada are a huge part of what of our fellowship now and, and. Yeah, just deciding to like do create the Blackard collective N Y c.

Michael: 26:22

Yeah. So there's a little bit of, you know, kind of like sequencing, you know, for folks. There's the Eino brunch, which was us meeting together, started out with like five or six of us that grew into, you know, 20 to 30 people meeting in any one of our homes on any given second or third Saturday of the month. And then that when Covid happened, transitioned into becoming an actual 12 step meeting called acon. So ACON brunch. And then is the aina meeting on Zoom? That is still going on, on Zoom, even though, you know, we're kind of post not post covid, but, but, but post quarantine continued and so coming out. Covid when we kind of began to come back together the first gathering that we had was around Juneteenth. And it happened to be, you know, when Juneteenth was, you know, kind of became a big deal out of George Floyd. But that was what we considered to be our kind of like family reunion or our re coming together. And so it was basically like after having these you know, weekly. C m a meetings online that were black only the first ever black, only c m a meetings ever anywhere. We were like, oh my God, let's get together. Let's meet one another. And so the first opportunity that, that that happened was you know, Juneteenth of 2021. And so and then that kind of became like a cookout and. My backyard, which was also interesting because by that point I bought a house with my partner during Covid and another friend during Covid. And so we had space, space to get together. That became really cool. So then the, you know, Juneteenth happened, so it was a, you know, 50 people coming together for dinner and a cookout and then a beach weekend here in New York during Pride month, which is also Juneteenth. So that kind of was like, wow, this is amazing. You begin to see, rather than people in boxes or people, you just see people in space outside being together. And that moved later that year. We had a fall retreat. One of the fellows that we met through our meetings, actually I had known him from my early sobriety in North Carolina. Had gotten sober in accumulated time. And during that time, he became the first and only, I don't know, maybe not the first, but certainly the only black b bed and breakfast owner in, in Provincetown. And he, he manages the property that, that, that sleeps about 25. So he basically blocked out a weekend in October for all of us to go up. And so then we had our first sort of retreat together and. It bekin it, it sort of began to grow. Then we saw a need for folks to get together and go to the theater together. We went and saw Strange Loop together for our second Juneteenth outing, and we was like, wait a minute. These times together are pretty powerful, but they're a little bit beyond the scope of like Ike and Tina or 12 Step Meeting or what the seven Tradition, which states that. You know, c m a group must be full self supporting, declining outside contributions. And so when people give a dollar or two to a meeting, they're not doing that to, to support a, a retreat per se. So there became the need to, to, this also goes towards there became an a need to create not only a financial structure to be able to support people in recovery, but a space to hold the context of recovery that might be beyond 12. Fellowship, like wellness, finances you know, mutual aid for trans, for black trans folks. As we begin to, you know life skills, hopefully, you know, all the things that kind of go beyond the scope of what a 12 step meeting is. Four and and really go into make. Impacting the whole life of a person is, is what we hope to accomplish through the Blackard Collective. Yeah.

Chris: 30:09

You know, and I just this is, you know, it's, the past seven years have been so amazing you know my life has ever been changed by my relationships with the two of you, and then subsequently the lives that we've been able to touch and just to see what we've just been able to accomplish just because we wanted to get to know each other better. You know, just because we wanted to improve our relationships with other black queer folks, you know, it's something that had been so missing for my life for so many years. And I didn't, I knew that I wanted it, but didn't know how to access it, right? Mm-hmm. And I, that the sobriety was gonna be different, that was gonna give it to me. Mm-hmm. And you know, this is my mission. You know, this is my purpose. I don't want to do anything else with my life except for this, you know? Because this it, it just, it feels so good. Even on the days where I like, don't want to do it. Even on the days where I like, you know, I don't wanna come to the cookout. I don't wanna like, interact with people. Like I get there and I just, I have a good time. You know, I, I, I, I see myself reflected I hear myself reflected and it just, nothing feels like it. And. You know, as we sort of start to look towards the future, like what do we want, you know and how can people help us with that?

Michael: 31:26

Delano.

Delano: 31:27

Well, we, first of all, you can check out our website the blackard collective nyc.org, and it's gonna tell you more about us. Tell us why we're doing this, and. No, we, we talked about the spring clearance retreat that Chris is the chair of, and one of our goals and ideas is in the next couple years we wanna have a Blackard Collective retreat. We want people to all be able to come together and to be able to share these experiences and to like connect and to. Get this like thing do you know, as as Krista said, like going into a meeting now and seeing all these like bipo people and so many of them are coming in younger, which is even more amazing and come in and kicking it up and laughing and connecting and I have five Bipo spons and to talk to them, which is crazy and I love them so much and the fact that they. Share what's going on with them. And I get to like be, take part in their recovery. It's not just about me and showing up and be like, Hey, we did it. Do you know when I came in, I thought I would be the last person out of that group that would be here 12 years later. And I've had people tell me, we thought that about you too. You know, but you know, like, and they're like, you are not, you are not present. You are not having it. You sat in the back with your arms crossed, but I'm still. And so I want that for other people. And so we, we got this saying, we got this Blackard collective like going and, and as Chris just said I feel like this is like one of I'm, this is what I'm meant for and I'm not from a place of ego. It's this place of like, no, I want other people to have this. I want other people to have access to this. And it's something, until you have it, until you feel it, you're like, oh my God. This is what I always wanted. Do you know? Mm-hmm. And so, and that's where we're at right now. So Michael, why don't you tell us a little bit about more of our, where we're going from here? Yeah. I mean, I think

Michael: 33:27

that anybody who knows anything about addiction, the disease of addiction, the epidemic of addiction and alcoholism knows that that for, for, for, for, for, for most people you know, alcoholism and addiction is, is a disease that, that. That, you know, requires treatment. And it's been that way for just about a generation, probably since, since the seventies. But, but for black people. It's, it's a moral failing. It's criminalized. If you are a drug addict and you're black you need to be you need to be locked up. If you are a drug addict and you're white you need to be treated. And so, you know, there. I've never heard of, and again, I'm not a specialist in this particular area. You know, I'm only, I only have my experience however and, and that experience means something. I come from a, a large black family, a large urban and, and rural black family, and know many people who have, you know, suffered from the crack cocaine epidemic and, and they never were ever, you know, recommended to any kind of a. Or any kind of a, you know, like treatment program where they had to go to meetings and have somebody sign a sheet, you know, or any kind of a situation where they were given housing mm-hmm. And allowed to continue to use. So, so, and I say all this to, to, to, to say that that creating an environment under that, that. Under which, you know, black people specifically are able to find dignity and hope. A amid addiction, disease of addiction is not an easy thing. And you know, anything that we're doing is trial and error there. There's not a lot of research, there's not a lot of books, there's nothing you can Google. And most of the. You know, examples out there are, are just not unique to the black experience. And so there's just a lot of factors that go into creating something like this. But first of all, I think that it begins with, it, it, moving forward, it has to get back to where we began, you know? Connecting together with ourselves being sure that we're aligned, being sure that we're grounded in our rec recovery and our own sobriety, and then moving forward from there and kind of doing the same things over again, but just on a broader scale because we have more people that are, that trust us and are, that are within our care. Mm-hmm. Me,

Delano: 36:03

it's amazing dignity. I love that word. And it's so crucial that we're bringing dignity to this. Mm-hmm.

Chris: 36:11

And I think that that is, you know, in our call earlier I was talking about attraction versus promotion, and that is mm-hmm. That is the attraction, right? So many folks come and they, they see us in the way that we present ourselves and they want that, right? We are able to hold ourselves with dignity and integrity and they want that. And so and I think I get that because I hang out with y'all.

Michael: 36:35

Hmm. You know? Yeah, you do.

Delano: 36:44

Girl. Put some

Michael: 36:45

clothes on,

Delano: 36:46

some

Michael: 36:46

dick. Stop wiggling.

Delano: 36:50

Sit down. Sit down. How about, how about that? Just so you, just so y'all know who are listening out there. Chris has one of the most iconic laughs of anybody I've ever met in inside,

Michael: 37:04

far most iconic, fill in the blank of anything I've ever met.

Delano: 37:07

Right. Thank you.

Chris: 37:08

Thank you. Okay, well here we are. You, but you didn't dispute

Delano: 37:12

it though, did you, Chris? Correct. You did not lie. This is true.

Chris: 37:21

You know, that is, those are all the questions that I have. You know, again, I wanna thank Steve so much for giving us this opportunity to share what we do and what we have been doing on this platform. You know, I know you reach a lot of people and you know, I hope a lot of folks hear what we have to say and are willing to share our story story with folks that they think this might impact. And Yeah. Yeah. Again, just thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you, Michael. And thank you Delma for everything that you do in my life and for showing up for this today. It's really been it's been awesome.

Michael: 37:51

Thank you. And thank, yes. Thank you so much, Steve. This has been great. Yeah. I

Steve: 37:54

appreciate the opportunity to be present for this conversation. Now why don't we one by one go through and say how everyone can find you as a group and individual.

Delano: 38:05

I'll start. You can,

Chris: 38:10

you can find me, Chris on Instagram at CPR, gives you live and you can find the Blackard Collective NYC on Instagram at the blackard collective n Y c. Yes. And

Steve: 38:19

don't forget the NYC or else brings you to a farming page as I found out. Correct. And

Michael: 38:24

we're not, we're not, and we're not, that, that is not under, we do have some land, so anybody out there that got some land and they trying to donate, we'll take it, but not yet.

Delano: 38:33

Reparations.

Michael: 38:36

Yes, man. Yes. So I am Michael Crumpler. And you can reach me on Instagram and Twitter at MJ crumpler. MJ Crumpler, that's mj, C R U M P L E R. And we have a website for the Blackard Collective. You can do B yc, www dotc nyc dot o r g, and that is also on Facebook as well.

Delano: 38:58

Wow, Michael. Be spelling everything out. Make sure they're not gonna forget it.

Michael: 39:01

Don't

Delano: 39:02

forget it. I'm de o Burrows, and as you said, blackard collective nyc.org. Check it out. Also on Instagram and Facebook. Personally you can find me on Instagram at Theater Huxtable. I'm a writer and an artist, and I work. And I work as a racial justice coordinator as well at a nonprofit called Multicultural Bridge. And so all this stuff, all of the, everything I'm doing is because of this group, all of this stuff, embracing this and talking about it. So check us all out. Yes,

Steve: 39:36

everyone. Thank you. Check them all. And if you want to hear more of this conversation, you can head on over to our Patreon page. For this episode. Anyone who heads on over to the Patreon page, not just subscribers, will be able to get access to this post show episode. So head on over there at patreon.com/gay a podcast. Meanwhile, if you wanna reach out and get involved with the show, you can email me@gaypodcastgmail.com or on Instagram Gay podcast. Be sure to follow us wherever you're listening so you can get new episodes when they come out every Thursday. Until next time, stay sober friends.