Sex in Recovery ft. Jason R

Steve welcomes Jason back to reflect on how our sex lives and the ways we look at sex have evolved in our recovery.

Topics discussed include:

• Catching up with Jason
• How did sex, drugs, and alcohol affect one another in our addiction
• What was sex like in early recovery
• What sex is like for us today
• The power of communication with sex
• Putting aside shame
• And much more!

Follow Jason @rudabega82 on IG, and follow us too @gayapodcast. Head over to the Patreon page to hear what is basically "gAy A After Dark" this week as we dive even deeper and harder into the topic of fabulous sex in sobriety!

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Transcript

Steve: 0:55

Hi everyone, and welcome to Gay A, a podcast about sobriety for the queer community and our allies. I'm your host, Steve Bennett Martin. I'm an alcoholic and addict, and I'm grateful for a new gift of sobriety, which is volunteering with a local queer youth organization. Now, as of this recording, I am 921 days sober, and today we're welcoming back a friend of the podcast, Jason, to talk about a topic that never gets old with our listeners, sex. Welcome back.

Jason: 1:22

Hey, welcome. Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me back on. Yes. And

Steve: 1:27

for those who might not have been listening back in February or just as good as mine is. Why don't you reintroduce yourself to everyone?

Jason: 1:36

Yeah, sure. So my name's Jason. I'm an alcoholic and a drug addict. As of today, I have 1, 227 days sober which I never, ever thought that I would be able to say. I could barely get like one or two days sober. And I am currently living in Northern New Jersey. I thrive in recovery now. Like we were talking about a little bit earlier, consistency has been a blessing and a curse, but so much better than living in the chaos that I used to cause in my life. And I'm excited to talk about sex and recovery because I just don't think that people talk about it a

Steve: 2:17

lot. Yeah, I know, especially in the rooms, but in general, sex was always one of the fascinations that I always had, even outside of acting on it, but if there was a documentary on sex, I was the first one to watch it. I was just always fascinated about like this way sexuality works in college. I was all about it. The course is on sex and sexuality, so it went beyond being like a horny pervert and being generally interested in the topic, but what does sex mean to you?

Jason: 2:44

Well, I don't think there's anything wrong with being a horny pervert. Not at all. Not at all. We all have a little bit of that

Steve: 2:51

in us. I was saying in addition to.

Jason: 2:54

Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, I have really become more sex positive because I think that I have learned how to embrace sex and sexuality. And, I'm a very flirtatious person, so I found very young that if I flirt enough to the right people, I get what I want. And so I used sex a lot very, very early on. From what I remember, for me, because I am so connected to drugs. Sex has been a part of my journey since the beginning. You know, when I was growing up, I grew up in a very small blue collar conservative town. And as I was starting to discover who I was and my sexuality. That was not the place to do it. It was just shunned and you had to be with a woman and all this kind of stuff and so my first sexual encounter was with my girlfriend. It was very awkward. I don't think either of us really enjoyed it. And I fought the urge of, like, wanting to be with men. For a long time. I, I didn't come out until I was like 23. And so, through high school, getting bullied for, looking at the guys, or saying quote unquote gay things, or whatever it is. I'm sure you and the listeners have experienced that yourselves. I was fighting with myself and I remember on multiple occasions saying to myself, please don't be gay, please don't be gay, please don't be gay. And even through college I was in a fraternity and I got the award one week. We called it beer goggles, the beer goggles award. I won it because I woke up in a bed after a night of drinking with a guy and my fraternity brothers walked in on that and, we used it as a joke and stuff, but I was like trying to hide who I really was. And even until I came out, I was saying that I was bi. And, I certainly believe that, that people are bisexual. I am not I could have sex with women if I wanted to. I just don't choose to. And I find an emotional connection to men, so that's why I identify as gay. But, when I was in college, that's where sex really became a thing for me. And it was always fueled by alcohol. And I would just use it to manipulate people into getting things that I wanted. You know, I would have sex with the person who had the most drugs, or I would have sex with the person to keep them up drinking with me and it was just always used as a tool for manipulation, and never really for enjoyment, you know, I would get off and stuff, but it wasn't fun. And as drugs got more and more introduced into the scene. It became, I would say, shameful, and I really started resenting the sexual encounters that I was having in my life. Yeah, I

Steve: 6:09

know that right from the get go, that shame is something that many of us have with sex. In general, we're taught sex is bad, especially in a lot of religions, or the way that society has it, but then you throw in queer sex, and it makes it multiple, multiple times worse, and it makes it harder for people to cope with I know that I identified with your bisexual journey Because I went through that I would say My freshman and sophomore year of high school. it was much earlier for me, because there was no hiding that I was a little special unicorn, like, right from the beginning. But, as people were telling me I was gay, and I was, trying to fit in, I was trying to say, I was bi, and I tried with girls, but it never got to a certain point. Also, because I knew that after having my first time with a guy being my older cousin non consensually being molested as a child that I was like when I have like as a grown up quote unquote like my first time with a guy I wanted it to be like rainbows and magical and sweet and everything from like Dawson's Creek and all those other things of the time that would make you vomit and that's exactly what ended up happening though for me. As bad as my first time as a child child was like my first time it was my senior year of high school and I remember it was with a guy who like I thought it was like the hottest thing since like Wonder Bread. I was just like, how is he even interested in me? But with the way body dysmorphia, especially with kids worked, he probably thought the same exact thing about me of like, how am I with him? But it was perfect. At that time, I thought he was great. He thought I was great. We didn't know what lube was. So that was a journey that we found Vaseline and we made it through. And then I found out afterwards that the music that he was playing in the background with all the light candles around me was the new Clay Aiken album, which also dates me. So it was all, it was all very that, but. After, the trauma from being a child, that was what I needed, I think, to heal, where, after that, I was like, Okay, now I can have, the, the quick, sex, I hear about, or,, I see in porn pictures or videos and things like that. Like, I got my romance out of the way, but, especially with sex and drugs becoming so intertwined, where did that kind of journey take you in your life? And when did it start rolling outside of the bedroom and into your real life? Yeah,

Jason: 8:17

so, gosh, I specifically remember the first time I did drugs and had sex at the same time, it was at a sex party, and I was brought there by someone who I was dating at the time, and you talk about body dysmorphia, so strong with me, and I did not feel comfortable, and the guys in the room were so fucking hot, and I wanted to just I wanted to leave, but I knew that if I did, the guy I was dating would get upset and all this kind of stuff I was making up in my head. And so they offered me some crystal meth, and I was like, sure, I'll do anything right now because you obviously don't have any booze in the house. And so I did that, and everything changed. I became the life of the party. In every single way. And what that did for me is it reinforced the idea that if I did drugs, I could have sex with guys who I thought were outside of my league. And so I chased that feeling. And I chased that feeling. And I would put myself in situations that I had no business being in. Years later from that first time experience, I would become positive from some random trick who I didn't know. I know exactly who it was from. And, it just became something that I needed to feel good about myself. If I had nothing else in the world, if I didn't have money to offer, if I didn't have. The education to offer if I didn't have the personality or the body or the whatever, I could have sex with you and I'm pretty good at it. Like, I'm pretty good in bed. I will fully admit that. And so I became this person chasing, not just dick, but, the feeling of acceptance through sex. Whether it be for three minutes or three hours., crystal meth's a hell of a drug, and I kept chasing that, and so that bled into me seeing sex as this fun thing to like a requirement. I needed to have sex every day, because I needed that jolt of love. For as weird as that sounds, like I felt love in that moment. I obviously didn't know what it was because that's not love, it's pure ecstasy and all these different chemicals and stuff. But I was chasing that feeling so much that I would have sex with people that I didn't find attractive, because they had drugs or,, vice versa, and, and it was just a, a vicious cycle of trying to feel good about myself. Yeah,

Steve: 11:22

I mean, wow, I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that, because I know that I'm so thankful hearing stories like yours, that my first time with crystal meth was so horrible and uncomfortable, because if it had been, A good experience, my trajectory of, my game over would have been just, sped up times four, times eight, I know., Yeah, I had a bad experience the first time, and it kind of traumatized me, so that when people would say, like, Would you want it? I would say no, but that was, the only thing I would say no to, I'd say yes to everything else, and people learn real quickly to keep the cocaine away from Steve, Or else it would be a whole big thing for, the rest of the night, or the week, or the month, but, Even without, going to places to score drugs, and alcohol being my drug of choice, which was very easy to get, you can get on your way home from work or on your way, to the date or whatever, but once I was drunk, it took me to the same places, the number of times I would drive drunk, like for sex, it was almost like, drink, then drive. to get sex or get even better get someone to come over so you don't have to go anywhere and then when they leave you can invite someone else over and it's just that much easier without having to geoplot the night but so oftentimes when I was single especially like those two things just went hand in hand and sometimes even when I was in relationships where it shouldn't have been they went hand in hand in ways that they shouldn't so yeah that search for sex can almost be just as dangerous as that search for drugs when you're an alcoholic and an

Jason: 12:42

addict like that Absolutely. I mean, the person I was when I was actively using is not the person I am today in any respect, but mostly because I used to not give a fuck about the person I was dating or the people in my life. If I. Was drunk or high. I would cheat. I would look for other partners, even even in the middle of a sex party where we're all high, all naked, all doing the things that we do at those kind of events. I was still looking for something else because I was looking for more drugs, or I was looking for that next thing, you know, I was that guy on the bed or in the corner on the phone constantly looking, constantly looking, constantly looking, and it was because my drug fueled mind was like, this isn't enough, you're not getting what you need right now, you need more attention, you need more people, you need more whatever, and it was just constantly going, and, you know, Since I've gotten sober, I've been in two relationships the current one being the longest. I haven't cheated once. I don't search out that need for sex. Like, I like it. I think it's fun. I think, you know, I, I have better sex now that I'm sober but honestly, it was a difficult transition for me.

Steve: 14:11

Yeah, I mean, let's get into that because I know that even for me, being married when I got sober, and we didn't have sex that first 30 days of, my recovery because, I there was healing that needed to be done, but even in that,, waiting 30 days, that first time was awkward and uncomfortable. I mean, were you in a relationship when you got sober?

Jason: 14:30

No he actually broke up with me when I went to rehab, which I mourned. But when I got out of rehab, I was really appreciative of and so I got out of rehab sober and single, and it was probably three to four months before I even felt comfortable. Going on a date, let alone having sex with someone. And I remember the first time I had sex with someone, it wasn't satisfying. It felt like I was doing it just to do it because I thought, Hey, we went on two dates and now it's sex time and blah, blah, blah. And I wasn't setting myself up for success. I wasn't emotionally invested just like when I was using, I was not emotionally invested with the person that I was sleeping with. And I don't think that you always need that, but at the time I did, and it was just a weird experience, a weird experience that didn't leave either of us satisfied, and so I talked to my sponsor about it, and I waited another couple months. Before I had sex with someone else, and an interesting thing happened after that time is that I went on a couple of dates with him, we had sex, and then I didn't want to see him again, because I didn't think that I wanted to date him. I didn't want to date him, I didn't want him to be my boyfriend, all this kind of stuff. But I didn't know how to tell him that. I was so emotionally immature. that my previous self would either be a super, super bitch to him so that he would just stop talking to me or two, I would ghost him and never talk to him again. And I didn't want to be like that person anymore. So I had talked to my sponsor and be like, I just had sex with this guy. I don't want to have sex with them again, but also don't want to date him. So like, how do I do that? And my sponsor who was like nine years younger than me was walking me through how to actually disconnect with love. And it was just eye opening, and, since that second time, I have found that the amazing, crazy, kinky, emotional, loving, nurturing, wild sex that I used to have when I was high, I can actually still have now, without the drugs, without even poppers. And like, I can still experience all of that today. And there are some things that changed, you know, here and there. But for the most part, like, I can still have the sex that I really like without being high. And it's mind blowing. Yeah,

Steve: 17:21

it's certainly mind blowing. I would say that it's even better now, at least in my experience, than it was beforehand. Because generally, the person I'm with, you know, I'm there. In the moment with them, but also I know that I've experienced more of what I like and don't like rather than the number of times I've been putting myself in situations or trying to say yes to things because I think that's what other people want. Learning what I like sexually has also been quite the journey. What does a healthy sex life look like to you today?

Jason: 17:50

wHat does a healthy sex life look like to me today? Well I don't have it as often as I used to, but I don't put shame on that. I always used to think like if I'm in a relationship, I have to be having sex like three times a day or at least every day. Bitch, that is tiring. That's tiring and it's a lot of preparation to do that. And So the times that I do have sex with my partner, it's hot and it's wild and it's wonderful and it's mutual, like it's not just me trying to get something out of it, it's us really connecting, like you were just talking about, like really having that sense of presence. With the person and, honestly, we've had guest stars here and there but it's not like an active thing, you know,, I have been in an open relationship before I know that's not for me anymore, but I know that my partner is as much of a sexual person as I am. And so, we have mutual conversations of like what that looks like. And so it's really healthy because there's a lot of communication in it. And even if it's just the two of us, which it is 99 percent of the time, but we communicate like, let's have sex tonight. Or even, and I never thought I'd say this, but like, hey, Let's have sex on Friday because I'm exhausted and I don't want to have sex tonight. And so there's that mutual communication of, really being able to be that partner and have the boundaries and have the communication and And it's just so much more satisfying than anything I've had before. Yeah,

Steve: 19:41

I love how you bring it back to the communication because that is like so key and something that I didn't communicate like before sexually. So it's amazing, especially when you're having sex with someone who cares about you and wants you to feel good the way that you want them to feel good. When you communicate like, I want this. It's wild the things that they'll do with consent and everything. But just even the over this past weekend, my husband and I were getting frisky. And, he was teasing me down there. And, I finally was like, I want you to just suck my dick. And he did. And it was great. But, if I just sat there, like hoping and wishing that that was what was going to happen next, he probably would have gone on to the next thing with just a little bit of like teasing but like that in that moment, that was what I wanted. And so being able to communicate that I manifested it and it was lovely. yeah,

Jason: 20:27

exactly, exactly. You ask for what you want and you get it. I mean, it seems like impossible situation when I'm high or drunk to be able to actually ask for something that I want. And most of the time I would either just take it, which is inappropriate or be sit there and hope that I get it and never say anything about it and be pissed off when I don't get it. Now, it's like, this is what I want. If it's a yes, great. If it's a no, there's some negotiation. And if it's a hard no, it's like, okay, I got it. I'm not going to press your boundary, you know? And so it's all about connecting with the person that I'm with now. Yeah, that is

Steve: 21:14

so important. And especially for people in relationships, that's great advice. What would you give for people that are single and on the apps or on the streets looking for sex or struggling

Jason: 21:25

That's a great question. You know, I think that. There has to be some self reflection as to like why you're looking for it. I used to be on the apps and I'm not going to put that down or, say you shouldn't be on it. You know, you do what you think is best for you. And if you are looking for something. Define what it is first. I hear so many of my single friends say, I'm looking for a relationship, or I'm looking for that person that I can be a partner with, and then it's just guy after guy or girl after girl after girl and guy after guy, and there's no emotional outreach to it. So my recommendation to them is check your motives. Like, why are you actually looking? If you're looking for a quick fuck, then go find a quick fuck. But if you're looking for something more than that, go look for something more than that. I have a friend who is constantly complaining about not being in a relationship, but all he does is hook up with DL straight guys. And I'm like, bro, that doesn't Like, you're not going to find what you're looking for hooking up with someone who has a wife. Yeah.

Steve: 22:36

Come on. I have not seen that Disney movie yet. And I don't see it coming out anytime soon. Like that. I know. Love stories work.

Jason: 22:44

Right. Exactly. And I never put him down because that's the thing that he looks for and he gets obviously, but for me, if you're looking for one thing, but doing another, you have to look at the reason why you're doing it. Right. And the second thing I would say to, to people who are like really starting to explore this topic and, and it's just don't be afraid of it. You know, it took me a lot to be sex positive and I've been called a whore and a slut and like all this kind of stuff. And you know what? I love sex. I love sex with lots of people. I'm in a relationship and I choose not to do that now. But if I was single, I'd be having sex with people because I want to. And if I wanted to find a relationship, I would go find it, but it doesn't make us bad people to like to have sex. And I think that is a real big sticking point for a lot of people. Cause there's a lot of slut shaming out there. There really is. And it doesn't mean that. It's bad. just embrace sexuality. Embrace who you are. Love who you are. And just be safe. Be careful because there's a lot more things out there that That are dangerous than, than HIV, which I have, and I get a monthly, twice or three months shot for, but still there's a lot of things out there that can really impact our wellbeing, not just our physical health, but our mental health too. So just be careful. Yeah,

Steve: 24:24

I definitely agree that being careful, as long as no one's getting hurt, there's nothing wrong with sex and I've done workshops and I've like coached people through sexual issues before and if you're having fun and the person's having fun, it doesn't matter. And one thing I've also learned in recovery is that back in the day I always thought that having sex had to be a certain act to a certain completion or else it didn't count. And I've also learned being in a long term relationship and finding different ways to spice things up that sex can also be like different forms of intimacy and it doesn't have to end one certain way for it to be an intimate moment between two of you or to even be considered sex. And that's also been very powerful to learn in recovery.

Jason: 25:04

I love that. I love that. We talk about this in my 12 step program around like a sex inventory. And my sponsor said to me, day one, don't think about it as just physical. It's about intimacy, not just physical sex. And I had a really Oh, yeah. Change the way that I was thinking about sex in general and that connection and intimacy. So I love that. I love what you're just saying.

Steve: 25:36

And I, we can talk about sex all day long, I'm sure. But to end on a positive note, what has been one of your favorite sexual experiences in recovery?

Jason: 25:47

Ooh, that's a good, good question. I would say that the sex that I have with my partner now in general, but specifically we just went to Mexico and we had a private balcony that overlooked the beach and all this other area and he fucked me on the balcony and it was outdoors and it was free, it was hot. And I get a little loud, so maybe someone might've heard me, but

Steve: 26:22

it was just better.

Jason: 26:23

Exactly. Exactly. I find it hotter that people get to know that I'm getting pounded. So

Steve: 26:28

yeah, that's awesome. Yes. I'm sure our listeners will love that. And if someone wanted to connect with you, if this resonated with them or they need some more advice, how would they find you?

Jason: 26:39

sO our podcast has ended and so you can reach out to me on Instagram at rudabaga82.

Steve: 26:47

Excellent. Sounds good. Well, I'll be sure to put that in the show notes so that everyone can follow you there. And make sure while you're there, also follow me if you're not already at GA podcast. And for more time with Jason and I, head on over to the Patreon page, where we'll either spin the post show topic wheel, or just keep talking about sex, I don't know yet, we'll figure it out. So until next time, stay sober, friends!