Hey there, super soberheroes! Today's episode is all about exploring the world of sober apps in 2024.
In this episode, you will be able to:
Explore inclusive apps for sobriety
Inclusivity within sobriety applications is highly commendable, as they cater to diverse audiences such as the queer and sober community. These inclusive platforms understand unique struggles and offer tailored resources, advice, and support. By reaching out to individuals from all walks of life, they foster a sense of belonging, significantly enhancing recovery.
The resources mentioned in this episode are:
Guests Featured Include:
Danielle @dc_and_rosey
Mark @heymarko8
Shane @rhythmcafeheflin
Cori @_coritee4_
Submit your experiences on Sober Dating apps for the chance to be featured next week. Email them to steve@sobersteve.com or message me on all the socials @gayapodcast to talk more!
Hey there, super soberheroes! Today's episode is all about exploring the world of sober apps in 2024.
In this episode, you will be able to:
Explore inclusive apps for sobriety
Inclusivity within sobriety applications is highly commendable, as they cater to diverse audiences such as the queer and sober community. These inclusive platforms understand unique struggles and offer tailored resources, advice, and support. By reaching out to individuals from all walks of life, they foster a sense of belonging, significantly enhancing recovery.
The resources mentioned in this episode are:
Guests Featured Include:
Danielle @dc_and_rosey
Mark @heymarko8
Shane @rhythmcafeheflin
Cori @_coritee4_
Submit your experiences on Sober Dating apps for the chance to be featured next week. Email them to steve@sobersteve.com or message me on all the socials @gayapodcast to talk more!
Hey there, super Sober Heroes, it's Steve, host of GA, a podcast, ready to welcome you to episode 177. As we talk about sober apps, I am happy to report that I woke up filled with gratitude for 984 days of sobriety today, as well as for all the positive feedback I've heard from you all this past week since I did my first live episode last week. It was a big jump and big leap of faith, putting myself out there, in a way, after spending 175 episodes making sure that my episodes ever they were perfect and well edited and didn't have any ums or buts, if I can help it and making sure that the voice that I'm sending out to the world is like the perfect version of my voice, which I understand now doesn't exist and I just loved hearing how you all embraced hearing this more authentic, unfiltered version of me as I'm trying to spread the message about how awesome it is being queer and sober. So, with that, also thank you to our new Patreon members of Brittany, gary, bridget, justin, karen, crystal and Tammy. I am so excited that you are part of the Patreon family now and not only get to experience over 50 hours or not 50 hours, but probably around a lot of content of 50 episodes of bonus content from post shows from guests that we've had in the past, as well as all the new exciting stuff that we're doing and talking about behind the scenes before it goes live here. So if you are interested in helping shape the future of the show, make sure you head on over to the Patreon page, because that's where it's at patreoncom backslash gay a podcast.
Speaker 1:Let's get into this week's episode. The topic of sober apps came up because I was talking recently with someone who had recently celebrated 40 years of sobriety and I made a new friend when instantly I was like wow, I'm not even 40 years old and that's just what someone with a lot of years of experience on this earth, as well as with a lot of years of sobriety, wants to hear is just how young I am, both in sobriety as well as in life, compared to his experiences. So after I made a new friend that way, it was interesting just hearing between that and a viral clip that recently went around from cruising pod about the early stages of gay AA that a lot of my awesome listeners have shared with me. Those two things just made me realize how far getting sober has come in terms of the ways that we can do it and what it looks like today than it did 20 or 30 or 40 years ago. So I wanted to dive into one of the ways that that is.
Speaker 1:The biggest change is technology, and thank God for technology, because I got sober on May 28 of 2021. So it was during the pandemic. They had some outdoor meetings, but not a lot, and even with the outdoor meetings, they were only existing because I was in Florida. The rest of the world was told to stay home, and so were we. We just didn't listen as clearly or loudly and as alcoholics and acts, we can all get that a little bit. But yeah, it was hard for me to go out to meetings and especially find meetings that I felt comfortable with or felt safe at, and so it was great being able to use the Internet and Google where to find meetings and where to find resources and find that zoom is more than just like for work industry people just figuring it out, and I've heard that there's this whole group of people that have figured out long beforehand and do these virtual meetings where people can connect from across the world and talk about sobriety, and how awesome that was and it made it accessible to me in a way that it wouldn't have been accessible if it was. You know, the 80s or 90s even and I was trying to get sober during a pandemic. It would have been a lot more difficult had it not been for technology. But there's so much technology out there in terms of how it relates to sobriety, I figured to narrow it down.
Speaker 1:Today we would talk about sober apps. So most people when I talk with them, no matter what form of recovery or path that they're taking, looks like they have some sort of app that they consider a sober app, and after questioning people on what that means to them as well as what it means to me. So I've broken down sober apps into three different categories, the first of which is the tracking and motivation app. Those are the ones where the focus is to track and motivate you on your sobriety journey. There also are sober social and community driven apps, where the entire basis about the app is about finding community and connecting with other sober people, because that is huge. There's literature and resource driven apps, which where the forefront is connecting you to the literature or the programs or the meetings when and where you need it the most. So that is how I will break them down, but there are tons of apps we'll be talking about today with tons of different viewpoints, but I think the most popular one, and the one that people bring up all the time, is the concept of the tracking and the motivation driven apps.
Speaker 1:Oftentimes it is very simple technology for the app developers. It doesn't take a genius to be able to build an app that can count time forward or count time back. There are widgets and things like that all over the internet, but the genius behind it and what makes them brilliant, is how they apply it to sobriety and how important it plays into our daily routines. When we end up finding these apps and getting to use them. I know that the number of times now when people are starting in meetings or out and about and telling me about how much daytime they have, they pick up their app and they check their app and it's an app that is based around sobriety. I'm sure there are other counter apps where it can you know if you put in a time, it will tell you how long it's been since then. But the fact that these apps are focused about sobriety or recovery or being substance free for this long, and the way that they worded around our frame, that we're going through and shaping our experience, makes it a lot more impactful than if it were just it's been 900 and something days since May 28th. You know it's a lot more impactful to be able to say like you've been sober since, and so the fact that the apps are built this way definitely helps us track it.
Speaker 1:And one of them that everyone brings up online and I feel like it's because it is the one of the first ones in this modern way of a sober apps, as well as one of the more easy to find ones with a name it is I am sober.
Speaker 1:It was released in 2018 and it has a daily tracker where you put in when you got sober from your substance or substances that you can also track multiple different things in the program.
Speaker 1:For those of us who might have Stopped our main drug or alcohol or drink of choice one date and then drop something else like nicotine, another. You can track them both in most of these apps. So it has the tracker as well as a community and progress statistics the statistics I know people always love seeing that not only have they been sober for how many days, but how much money they might have saved if they were, you know, spending this much per day or per week and seeing how that racks up over the years. So there's definitely a lot of different ways we can use it and I will send it over to a conversation that I had with Danielle about the apps, because she will share her experiences on how the I am sober app has really helped her on her journey. Do you have any apps that you use that track sobriety or motivate you for sobriety or any kind of sober motivation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, for apps, I use the I am sober app. I think you can pay for extras, but I just use the plain old one and I like it. It tracks your days of sobriety. It tells you when your next milestones are. You can go fast forward. I could tell you if I went in it right now. I could tell you the date I just hit four years, but it'll tell me the date that I'll hit 20 years. So that's kind of goofy fun Like, oh my gosh, what will my life look like then? So that's fun.
Speaker 2:And then it has a little each day. If you want to, you can set up the reminder and you can pledge each day and you can write a little paragraph of why you got sober. So it's just a nice quiet in the morning reminder and then it gives you a little motivational quote. Which who doesn't need to start their day with a nice motivational quote? So I really like that. And then other sober motivation. As you and I met like, instagram is a huge place. I am like connected to so many different people that I don't actually know on Instagram. Lots of sober motivation, lots of good information. There's also a lot of good dating information on there. So I definitely turned to Instagram for, you know, just seeing other people and their journey and recognizing I'm not. I'm not the only one out here doing this work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that and I love finding sober communities on all these apps, because I've always had Facebook. I feel like since getting sober, if I create like a new account, the things that I follow naturally are sober, so it's. You know, I have sober Instagram and sober TikTok, like every. If I'm on an app now it's all sober stuff because it doesn't know me what I was like before or where it would show me the alcohol, as the Facebook seems to show me forever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. I feel like Instagram for me is much more content related what I want to consume and less. I mean I am connected to some people actually know on there, but Facebook's might like real, like these are the people, for the most part, I actually know, but Instagram is a whole other world. I love it.
Speaker 1:Thank you, danielle, for contributing that and, yes, she will be back next week as we continue the conversation with dating apps and what the experience of that is like for sober people. So we will touch more on social media apps and how that relates from our conversation on that in a moment. But I also did want to share after the interview with her. I had been spending all week long emailing these different apps and reaching out to them on social media asking about their hot take or their stance or their message for the queer and sober community in particular, because I found that a lot of these websites, as I was doing the research on them, they didn't have resources or mention of the queer community or the gay community or LGBT, and that there was nothing mentioning that we were a demographic that they were concerned about or working with or working towards. So I did spend the week trying to get quotes and words and I did hear back from one that did affirm and welcome us. It was not, I am sober. They did reply that, while they love what or what, we think what you're doing is great to me, our team does like to stay pretty private, so they offered to pass the message along about it. I did not spend my entire week chasing down this one app, but they did say that the team likes to stay private on things like whether or not their app is a safe space for the queer community, so I hope that one day they end up keeping that less private so that we have a clearer vision of what that means for them. But there are also alternatives to other tracking apps and things like that, which we will get into in a little bit with Corey as well, and moving on. I think that that is enough because you get the idea of how the tracking and motivation driven apps work. I think that it's great with our psychology to not only have a tool that keeps track of time but is giving us that clear message that we're on the right track and that we're on the right path and having that reminder where we're not responsible for looking and doing math. Things that simplify it, especially at first, make things a lot easier for us. So any app that you use that helps track your sobriety and your day count and your milestones, I think is a great way to keep you motivated and going forward.
Speaker 1:And in addition to that, community and connection is also a huge part of not only real life recovery but also the online one as well. I know that thanks to this podcast, I've created and found a lot of different online communities that really celebrate queer sobriety and are just beautiful, and that's how I've gotten to meet many of the voices that you see here, as well as the listeners who reach out and engage with me, and I love hearing from them. So with that, there is a great app that I recently found, also over. They reached out and actually featured me on one of their Instagram posts and it's always fun and being featured on something like that. But also I found that they have an app and it does have sobriety trackers as well as a ton of other amazing resources. So they do have a ton of great resources about and surrounding recovery where you can go on and you can find not only meetings but therapies and counseling centers and rehabilitation centers and inpatient and outpatient programs and free resources that they are just openly saying that this is a place that people can find it and it has a community that has a lot of potential. You can tell it is a newer community that they are building up and I am excited to be a member of that and see where the community aspect of it grows, and it's just another important way that you can connect with your sobriety.
Speaker 1:So if you'd like an alternative, try out All Sober. The information there is great, the community will be great, and what is more important is that they are the ones who did write back and support our community. So they said to me All Sober's mission is to provide anyone suffering from addiction and their loved ones with all their connections, information and resources they need as they journey through recovery. All Sober is committed to connecting the LGBTQ plus community with resources that make them feel comfortable and confident, allowing them to focus on their treatment, and so that is huge. They are the only ones with a blog that also, as well, did articles about our community, and so the fact that, when so many of these other apps and resources out there that aren't queer or gay specific don't really mention queer or gay resources, I now know and it's great knowing that there is one like All Sober out there that is committed to making it a safe space for us as well as everyone else that you know no access to recovery should be held off because of your sexuality or your ethnicity, or what language you speak or any other reason, and so the fact that they strive to make it a safe place for us really means a lot, and the fact that they responded as well was pretty cool.
Speaker 1:So thank you All Sober, I will make sure I post those pictures from the chats with both of those on the story. So make sure you're following me on all the socials at gay podcast, to see more. And I also know that, as Danielle and I talked about earlier, that you don't have to have an app, be specifically a sober community to make it a sober community. I know that I mentioned that, but I also know my friend Shane has a lot to say about that as well, with the community that we both found pretty much as soon as we each got sober, because it is very findable and it is a great community. So here let me pass you over to Shane to give you his experiences with the gay and sober Facebook group.
Speaker 3:Hey, my name is Shane S. I'm from Hifflin, alabama, and grateful today to have been sober since December 28th 2021 from alcohol and a little bit longer maybe a few months more than that from any type of substance, and life has been fantastic. I can't imagine where I would be right now had I not been able to get sober and to this life that I'm getting to live today. So when I started to get sober, one of the things I thought about was what was my life going to be like as a gay man? Where was I going to find friends? All I knew was to go to the bars to get online hook up party and that was my gay life. There was no sense of reality that I see now in the life I had. I was being very dangerous in my life sexually, being very dangerous in my life the way I took care of myself, and then the way I felt around other gay men. Because I was living this life full of anger, resentment. I had a lot of anxiety from my substance abuse. So when I got sober, I thought to myself man, I'm not going to be able to be gay anymore. Am I going to find friends that are going to be like me. So I immediately started looking online for sober gay meetings and the first thing that popped up was gay, sober men, gay and sober. And I found them on Facebook and started just looking through the website and then the Facebook page. And boy was I surprised to find a group of people that were just like me, people that had gone through the same things I had gone through, people that were struggling with addiction, but yet they still were the same people I was and for me. I knew that I needed to be a part of this group. I needed to reach out and find more people and help more people like me, because I am not the only person that's gay, that has gone through the party and play lifestyle, that has done all these crazy things and I could heal. I eventually noticed that the group was doing activities and things like that.
Speaker 3:I did not attend the first year conference just due to my sobriety. I had lived in New York City 15 years, so I didn't feel like I was secure in my sobriety to go my first year to New York. So but I did go on the Smoky Mountain trip and met some of the most amazing people in my life today and when I was on the trip, I got to share and talk with them and we went on hikes together and just became brothers in sobriety. And then I told them I was very interested in being a delegate for my area in Alabama and that has been such a great asset to me to be a part of the group even more to get back into service and I decided to go to the conference last year and, boy, what a wonderful experience.
Speaker 3:I got to go to New York. I got to experience Pride, sober. I got to be with a group of gay guys that were just like me and it wasn't about the way I used to think of my gay life that all we could do is get together and be drunk and do things that maybe wasn't right for me in my life. And it was an awesome experience. And I am the raffle chair for GSM, along with my friend Will H, who I love dearly as and we've become great friends and I don't know where I would be if I had not found GSM, if GSM wasn't there, if GSM wasn't there to help me and for me to help others.
Speaker 3:It's a strong support system of men and I want to see us grow throughout the United States having more events in other places, so that those of us that are hiding out there like I was hiding in my addiction knows that it's a safe place, that we could find each other and we can be gay and we can enjoy life, we can do things, we can have relationships and we can be much stronger as a group and survive. And you know, I know that I'm here for a reason today and that my higher power self fit in me to let me continue this life. So GSM, I always say, helped save my life. It was part of my recovery. My higher power led me to GSM. I'm very spiritual today as well and I am grateful for all the things that I can do today and that GSM is a part of my life. I will do my best to be a support system for whoever needs it and I hope that others know that they are my support system too.
Speaker 3:So thank you to all the guys that post daily on the site, thank you to everyone that continues to inspire me and it's one day at a time and it does get better. And thank you GSM, thank you Gay and Sober, thank you for Christian and the people that saw fit to continue to make GSM what it is today, and to everyone of you that I've met so far, I love you and let's continue to grow and continue to help each other to survive and to live and be happy. I hope you'll get involved with GSM the way I have and I hope that you'll see the benefit of being a part of such a great program. Have a wonderful day, and yes, that is Dolly Parton up there. She's my little angel, so have a great day. Thank you, guys, love you, stay strong and it does get better one day at a time.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, shane. We love you too, and it is always great hearing from you. It's amazing. You find the site, and then you find the group, and then you find the conference and then, all of a sudden, your entire world changes. I know that I got sober about a month before the first conference for Gay and Sober, and so I got to see the pictures and I was like I'm going to make it to next year, and more than once during my first year of sobriety I was like I need to stay sober because I need to make it to that conference and have that much fun. And I did, and it was awesome. So thank you, shane, for sharing your heartfelt experiences with that. I appreciate it so much as I know so do our listeners. And so whatever app you use to stay social while staying sober whether that be something with intent built around forming a community, like the All Sober app and their All Sober communities on their social medias, or whether it be through turning the apps that you're already using, like Facebook and Instagram and TikTok, into sober accounts, by unfollowing all of those toxic people that you don't even want to be seeing on those apps anyway, and instead following more sober content and more sober content creators like me. So make sure you're following me at GA podcast, because I have to plug that if we're talking about that piece of it all. But yeah, it's community is great and it's important, both in person and online, and so find your community online through those sober apps, because it's a safe place when you can't get to the community that you need to find in person.
Speaker 1:Moving on to literature resource driven apps, this is where we will get a little more 12 stepy, which, for some of you, is going to be super exciting. For some of you, you're just going to need to bear with me, because there are resources and information in this app that are going to be helpful and useful to you, whether or not you're using a program diligently. The first one is the big book companion app. It is a 12 step based resource with text and audio versions of the literature I discuss. It has features such as highlighting, bookmarking. You can read their daily reflections. It has speaker tapes on there that you can listen to and topic ideas. But while I have researched the app, I have one of our pod friends, mark, has a lot of real life experience with this, so why don't we pass it over to. When he told me all about this app earlier in the week, why don't we start with what it kind of apps do you use for your sobriety itself? That helps.
Speaker 5:Well, first of all, thanks for having me back. Let me grab my phone and see in my 12 step folder on my phone I only have two apps the 12 step companion, which I've had forever, right, so it does my day counting for me. It tells me all the hours, months and years and all that good stuff. And it's a carry around big book, right, so, like when I go to a big book meeting, I no longer have to, you know, carry my tattered old copy of the big book that I've been, you know, beating up for 18 years. So that's the first one. It has the principles, the prayers, the promises, all that good stuff. And then the other one is the 12 and 12. So those are my two sobriety related apps.
Speaker 1:Excellent, and how often do you use those apps?
Speaker 5:Quite frequently, like when doing step work with Sponsies. If I go to a meeting and we're doing a literature based, it's a literature based meeting. I'll pull those up real quick there to the older, more traditional apps you know. So I will be looking forward to hearing what your other listeners and contributors have to say to get me to find some other, you know, more sobriety focused ones. I have plenty of meditation apps on my phone that are also sort of come out of just the idea of wanting to have a better you know meditation practice. They're not necessarily sobriety related but you know it plays into that practice for me.
Speaker 1:Do you have any memories or recollections of them being there at a time when you really needed it?
Speaker 5:You know, I think that with that old school 10th step up used to really come in and help. That come in handy when I was like in the moment, in the heat of something, and it also like, even though it's not there anymore, it sort of trained me to a habit of like I'm in the heat of this, I need to write this down Because if I need to talk through this later I don't want to mess this up Like I don't want to either glamorize or victimize or catastrophize any of what's happening right now. So, even though that that one's not around anymore, it did train me into a really strong habit of like trying to write stuff down in that, even if it's just on my phone, in the note section of like shit to go over with someone else later.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is awesome. It's unfortunate that app isn't around anymore, but shows that there's room for an app like that if it doesn't exist. So maybe we'll find out over this next week of exploring it. Someone that doesn't just does that, but if not, developers make it. Yeah, or we could do it or we can. I think I'm doing enough right now. How about you?
Speaker 5:You know just running a school and you know all the other great things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you so much, Mark, and Mark will return next week as we talk about his take on the dating apps, for sure, but, yeah, I love the idea of having the stepwork apps and I couldn't find more after our conversation. So if you know of any more that help more specifically with stepwork, I definitely let Mark as well as myself know and I'll be sure to share it on our socials and give you the credit for being the one who found it for us. So, thank you. But there is also another literature based app that he didn't mention that a big friend of the podcast Corey has been using and they she is very excited about sharing her message with you, so share that with you as well, with her experience with the everything a app.
Speaker 4:So my name is Cori and I'm an alcoholic. The apps that I use for Alcoholics Anonymous and in general is basically the Everyday AA app. You can find it in your Apple store. It's a yellow box with the Alcoholics Anonymous symbol on it. This app gives me a leeway to see my milestones, count my days of how long I've been sober for, gives me a month and then the days included as well too, and also gives me like 365 days, 260 days, 100 days, 90 days and so on and so on and so on. Under the app as well too, it has the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, from the start of it to the end of the book, where it gives you the stories as well too. So if I need a quick read or if I am on the go, I'm able to click on the chapters and really really get into the program as well too, when I need it. And the other end of it, it gives me the daily reflections as well too.
Speaker 4:The daily reflections are a great way to start my morning, even when you know I'm on the go as well too, like I said, or if I'm trying to end my night and my AA book or my daily reflections is in somewhere else.
Speaker 4:It's easy for me to be accessible to that as well too, and then another agenda of it as well too. It gives you a play by play on where meetings are at, zoom meetings, what kind of meetings you would like to go to anything of that nature as well. It's a great way to like kind of find something to listen to and stuff like that. So I do highly recommend that app. It's a great way to start your morning. It's a great way to you know if you're on a lunch break and need something. It's a great way to end your day as well, too. It's just a great app in general, and I've used it for about a month and a half now. I did have I am sober, but I was looking for more involvement with my program and more on the go nature and that aptitude to me.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, corey, for sharing your experience with that and, one day at a time, we look forward to celebrating your one year on the 17th. So thank you so much for sending that in for us. So, after looking at over all of these apps, there are plenty of apps that you can download now and you can mention. I'll be sure to put them all on the show notes so you don't have to have them all memorized after this talk. But all these apps and all of these groups and all these places where you can track your sobriety or look at fun statistics to help motivate you along the way, or inspirational quotes, or connecting with other people or connecting with resources, there's, just like everything else, sobriety related. As I'm realizing, there's plenty of different methods where you can kind of get very similar things, and it's just a matter of finding the one that works for you, and so I know that right now, I'm going to be spending most of my time, if I'm on a sober app, on the all sober app, as well as on my social media platforms, just because those are the places that feel warm and safe for me, that have let me know that it's a safe space for me, but, at the same time, if you know there's another app that's more your style, use the one that works for you. There's nothing wrong with any of these apps. They all are just machines made by humans to help us, motivate us along the way. None of them have nefarious intentions, I'm sure. I hope you know. They're all just looking to help keep us sober, and just some of them are going to be better fits for one person than the other, just like other ways with recovery, some things sound better, click better when you were them one way. So try all these apps and let me know which one works best for you. I would love to hear what your takeaways are after trying some of these new apps. I would also love to have you get involved.
Speaker 1:As you are seeing this week, it is more than just a one voice or two voice podcast and show. Each episode I am trying to get multiple different takes on each perspective, and so, knowing that next week I've mentioned and dropped the hint a few times is about sober experiences on dating apps, I will let you know that I want to hear from you. I don't want to hear from you about how horrible it is, because we can all fear and know that it can be pretty rough out there on dating apps for anyone, sometimes even me. Being married, I understand from my single friends that it's rough out there, but what I am looking for is inspiring stories or, you know, motivating tales that you can have good experiences, whether those good experiences lead to marriage or whether they lead to a good night or whether they lead to a good hour. Whatever that good experience that you had to have where you got to encounter someone who respected and appreciated your sobriety. I would love to hear from you with that. You can do that by emailing me at Steve at soberstevecom, as well as hitting you up on all of the different socials at gay a podcast. But the more involved that you get with the show, the more voices there will be on each episode and the more people that it will impact, because they're getting more perspectives. And that's the point of this. All is to make sure that the people who listen to these episodes here's something that will help them throughout the day. Because of all the 80% of the things that we'll say on this episode, you might take away only one or two sentences, but hopefully those one or two sentences will help make your sober day a little bit better.
Speaker 1:If you'd also like more content, as I mentioned at the top of the show, my Patreon community is where it's at. There's tons of post shows. There's tons of behind the scenes. This is now where I'm posting the full clips from the interviews that I'm doing so that if you'd like to see the full interview for Mark or for Danielle right now, rather than waiting until next week to hear what their experiences on the dating apps are, you can head on over the Patreon page and find out now, and I look forward to hearing what your experiences are like as well. So reach out.
Speaker 1:This is an interactive, community based show now. It's what I've always wanted it to be. I just didn't know how to communicate that to you all. But yes, I want to hear all of you and your voices and what your experiences are like. So send those motivational stories about sober dating on the apps to give hope to all the people out there who might be afraid of what that might look like. So you can do that by emailing me at Steve at soberstevecom, or by hitting me up on any of the socials. I'll make sure to put my link tree in the show notes so you can find me wherever you feel most comfortable talking with me. Until next time, stay sober.