Overcoming Ruts ft. Jo

Steve welcomes back friend of the podcast, Jo Walduck, to discuss navigating life's challenges and overcoming ruts in your recovery while staying sober.

For more Jo,  follow her on IG @jowalkduck - and follow us while you are at it @gayapodcast

Check out our Post-Show to hear us talk about the harms of diet culture at www.patreon.com/gayapodcast

Until next time, stay sober friends!

Transcript

Steve: 0:04

Hi everyone and welcome to Gay a, a podcast at sobriety for the LGBT plus community and our allies. I'm your host, Steve Bennett. Martin. I am an alcoholic and I'm grateful for my favorite flavor, blue raspberry. As of this recording, I am 632 days sober, and today we are welcoming back friend of the Pod. Joe, welcome back.

Jo: 0:25

thank you so much for having me back. Thank

Steve: 0:27

you. Yes, you, you were my first handful of guests way back in the day. What's been new this past year or so? Oh

Jo: 0:34

my God, I was, I was thinking about that. So it's been a year, I think it was January, January, 2022 when we recorded within like three days of recording. Last time my dad died. mm-hmm. Which is obviously not funny but was kind of expected and had. Like had cast a shadow over most of 2021. Like 2021 was a complete shit show for most of the world anyway. And particularly in my, in my private life. And so my dad finally going, he'd been ill for a long time. It was devastating. And also there was, there was relief involved in that. So. Took up some of last year. There has been obviously a huge amount of family drama and I finally moved to the seaside. I moved in in October of last year. It took longer to make happen than I thought it was going to, and. but it's done. And like I was telling you just before we hit record, I have just come back from the beach. Like I, I get to go to the sea every single day. I get to see the ocean, I get to salute and connect with, with mom and nature. And so I'm, I'm really, it's been a t tumultuous three, three and a half years since, since I came into recovering. And I, I feel like. I'm, I'm in the right place. Things are, things are settling down in a nice sight.

Steve: 1:58

Excellent. I can certainly relate to the love of being near the water being, I'm like 10 to 15 minutes from the beach. I don't go enough. But it's nice to know that it's

Jo: 2:05

there. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It really

Steve: 2:09

is. Yeah. And coming back, why would you choose the topic sober, but.

Jo: 2:15

I mean, it's kind of my bread and butter, right? Yeah. Like with the, with the job that I do, with the coaching that I do. So my background is in life and business coaching, and then I ended up specializing in like, in doing that with people in recovery as well as doing like recovery coaching with people who are seeking to enter recovery. And so the sober but stuck is, it's the stuff that I love It's when people are like, okay, well no, I'm sober and, and. Holy fuck, I'm trans. How do I deal with that? Or now I'm sober. I'm like the, the realizations of the, the shit that we've been kind of blurring the edges in order to avoid seeing and avoid dealing with. That's what I love working on people with in recovery, like, okay, great, we've, we've removed this huge obstacle of alcohol, other drugs, other behaviors. Now we get to climb the fucking mountain. How are, how are we gonna do that? So it's great. Like, I love being kind. sharper for them. I don't do any mountain climbing in like real life So it's fun to do it with people metaphorically. Yeah, I can

Steve: 3:21

understand. Yeah. And I love this topic because it was recommended by a listener and out of like all the topics I send out to people, everyone, like I had a lot, a lot of people we're gonna get a lot of different perspectives on this topic. So Yeah. Very, very excited to dive into it with someone with expertise and like talks about it all day. Cuz a lot of us were like, we're stuck and we don't know what to do. So let's talk about for a little while and figure it out. Yeah, for sure. But how do you reflect back on what it was like before getting sober for

Jo: 3:47

you? I really do my best to, to look back with as much compassion and empathy for that person as possible. And that is not to say that I don't have an absolute bitch in my head it was like you were terrible. Nobody liked you. It was all your fault. I just tried to kind of move her as far away from the microphone as possible and tap into the, you know, the, the compassion, the compassionate voice. I, I do truly believe that, you know, we don't beat ourselves up into recovery. We don't beat ourselves up into progress in our lives. We can't beat ourselves into healing or into growth. And so it doesn. help me to go over and, and be really mean to myself about the stuff that, that I did, the choices that I made, right? It's all, we survive in the ways that we can for as long as we can until we, we learn better and we have the tools to do better. Nice. So, yeah, I dunno if that,

Steve: 4:45

yeah, and I could, I could definitely see that that, that being something that will help. Cuz a lot of us are our own worst critics. Like I know for me, I will talk or say things about myself that I would never say about anyone else in my life that I care about or even know, or like strangers. I wouldn't say these things too. So like why do I think it's okay to say them to myself?

Jo: 5:03

Yeah. Do you have people around you who can gently call you out on that when you're being. I mean to

Steve: 5:10

yourself. Well, I've learned not to do it out loud because no one in my family will stand for it. So it is mostly internal self-talk. It doesn't come out cuz people will call me out on it immediately and be like, stop Steve. So I do fight it. So like I, I do have to like look back on the old person like that. I was before getting sober with compassion. But I also think. Common. I, I've heard at least, and I've seen even like, had moments where I kind of look back on the time before getting sober with like rose colored glasses of like, oh, it wasn't, maybe it wasn't as bad. Like, okay, maybe I'm just making it out to be worse cuz I am my own worst critic and I wasn't that much of a drunker alcoholic and I have to like snap myself, like, slap myself across the face and be just like, no, it, it was bad and like it wasn't getting any better and you tried everything. And so I also think that like, yes, compassion certainly helps, but also like also remembering how bad it was can also help too, and being

Jo: 6:03

realistic. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. And saying like, it might not have been as bad as other people, but it was bad enough. It was bad enough for me to need to change me to want to change. Now I've done it, I'm not gonna go back. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Steve: 6:20

And what sort of tools or programs did you use at first?

Jo: 6:25

So I I used denial at first but that was really helpful for the first few weeks and months. I, I signed up for, for a 28 day challenge. I was like, I'm just not gonna drink for 28 days. There was no recognition of I'm an alcoholic, I'm an addict, I have a dependency. Like, there was none of that shit. It was just, I'm gonna, I had just yeah, I'd just been certified as a. Professional, pro, professional, certified coach, and was like setting up my, my company. And so I was like, I'm gonna take four weeks off the OS and give myself, you know, plenty of energy and plenty of motivation and I'm gonna get everything done. And that, that didn't happen. I worked on my sobriety for four weeks full time. I was in a group called one Year No Beer, who were really helpful back then. No, I'm not gonna talk about anymore about how they aren't today. They're helpful for some people and they're making money for a guy at the top But it was really helpful for me to be part of a huge, I think there was like 15,000 people at the time, this huge group of people online, some of whom were, you know, days, weeks, months, years ahead. Some around my day count, some coming up behind me and spending that much time talking to people without, like, I don't want to trash talk AA because again, they have saved millions of lives and changed millions of lives and done all of that. But without the whole, like, I have to sit down and say I'm an alcoholic and this is a problem for me, and blah, blah, blah. Like I wasn't ready to do that. A lot of people aren't ready to do that, and so this was a great kind of intermediary step for. To, to talk, to talk about addictions and addictive behaviors with other people. And to kind of put, you know, some of my coaching skills to good use. So really that community was, that was a game changer for me. Cuz all of the, the other people that I'd spoken about alcohol with. Were the other alcoholics who had surrounded myself. Right? Yeah. So we'd be like, oh, it's been terrible that we're drinking so much wine, blah la la this is awful. Next time let's not drink as much wine. And obviously that never changed. So there was that. There was community alcohol free drinks. I probably downed a bottle of nasty ass alcohol-free wine every night. Definitely for the first three months. I'm alcohol-free beers all the time, and I was just like, I'm, because I drank a lot previously. Like I was a, I was functioning not too badly, but I was, I was drinking a fuckton. And so I drank a fuckton of alcohol-free drinks and I was kind of, It's not exactly denial, but like I was telling my body, it's fine. We're we're still drinking a load of fun stuff just without the, you know, without the actual alcohol in it. So that, that was really, really helpful and that kind of tapered off slowly and then almost completely it comes back. in handy. If I have wobbly moments it's great for like celebrations and stuff, but I am nowhere near drinking a bottle of wine of, you know, fake wine Yeah. Night. Anymore, which is fantastic. Like I just kind of trusted my buddy interested the process and gave myself what my body was saying. Hello, can we have this? for as long as they were saying that

Steve: 9:50

for me. Yeah, I can certainly relate. I know that, but especially back when I was in sales and doing all the marketing events, like I don't know what I would've done without alcohol, free beer because like I was never even a beer drinker. So like, I think that like if I had something that tasted like my drink of choice, like it might have triggered me, but I was like, I never, like, beer was ineffective at getting me tanked So I never searched for beer, but like, like going out and having a non-alcoholic beer when I'm a. Full of people drinking. Like if it, it was a really nice, like buffer at first, so I didn't, yeah, because at fir at first I was like, everyone's gonna judge me for not drinking. Now I realize like, no one cares. Like they're too busy drinking to care about whether you're drinking.

Jo: 10:30

They're too busy thinking about what, what's in there, guys? Yeah. Right. And am I drinking too fast? Can afford the next drink. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: 10:37

And how have the tools that you use to keep you sober changed over the course of your recovery?

Jo: 10:43

So therapy was another one. I was, I was in gentle therapy when I started from like, you know, I had been for years. That is continuing. Like I, it's, I think therapy is amazing. Therapy is not necessarily a sign that everything's awful. Therapy could be really helpful and getting good things to be great. And also like, you know, for people doing the, the kind of work that I do, it's really good to have somebody else that we can just. you know, take our shit too. So therapy is, is still very, very important to me. Being coached is still very, very important to me. Alcohol free drinks, like I said, less so. 2021. I spent a lot of time in Wales at my sister's place on the coast. And so going to the water every day, like I grew up on the water and then when I was 18, left and essentially spent 20 years, like not on the water, not on the coast. And so moving back here, left October to, to the coast in, in Normandy, France, where I am. I go there every day, right? I, I go there every day and I connect to myself ethnic to the, to the world. Like to, to nature, not to people. Yeah. I don't, I don't need to connect to any more people I'm just not, it, it was interesting hearing you talk about the marketing life, like there was a moment probably within the first six months, there were a few moments where I was like, my life is changing too rapidly with the transition with. Quitting alcohol and then quitting nicotine. And like, you know, my, my life previously had been surrounded by alcohol and nicotine like they were the two main ingredients. And so I was kind of trying to keep old circles of friends, old friendships going like, it's fine. It's still me. I'm still the same person. I'm just not drinking the same, the same drinks anymore. Like, I'm still gonna go to your parties and I'm still gonna. Pen grand for 12 fucking hours while we talk about drywall. And everybody else gets drunk and so doesn't realize how boring this conversation is. And I'm gonna stay because I'm the same person. And now I'm just like, you know what? I don't give a fuck about what you're talking about. Like, I want to talk to people who are exciting and I wanna be able to go home when I'm ready to go. And sometimes that's two o'clock in the morning and sometimes it's nine 30 Yeah. At night, right? Like, I'm sober, I'm done. And I don't have to prove myself to you anymore because Yeah. Like I am fully not even okay with my decision. I'm super fucking proud of my decision to, to get sober and to stay sober. And so that authenticity, that, that confidence in our own selves, in our own choices, I think is really, I. Yeah, so I'm glad.

Steve: 13:27

Yeah, I can agree. And I, I love that the people close to my life all know that I go, like my home group on Zoom is like at 9:00 PM every night. So like I, and like I'm at the point now where I don't go every day, but I, like, if I'm having a rough day, I know that it's there at the end of the day. And so like at eight 30 everyone will check their watch and they're like, do you need to go Steve And like, at that point, like, I can make the decision of like, yes, I do need to go, or like, yes, I, I'll, I'll stay and I, I'll go tomorrow.

Jo: 13:55

Yeah. Yeah. That's

Steve: 13:57

super cool. Yeah. And you might have touched on it at the beginning of the episode, but what's one of the more difficult moments you faced in recovery?

Jo: 14:05

Jesus. I mean, my world, exploded. Yeah. I, yeah, got sober, then quit nicotine, then realized, I always knew, but came out as trans, like less than three months sober. Then my dad got diagnosed with cancer. Then the pandemic started, then I got covid. Then the, my Covid never went away. Like I've been dealing with long covid for, it'll be three years in October. Then like my dad not dealing well with me coming out then his husband getting sick then his husband dying then. Family estrangement, not being able to visit my dad. Then my dad died, then I was ill. Like, there have been a few peaks, Andros, I feel like I've, how

Steve: 14:53

have you done that? All

Jo: 14:53

sober. I, the only way that I've done it all sober, I like hello? Trigger warning. But I think that if I was still drinking, I would be dead. Mm-hmm. If I hadn't gotten sober when I did. And I've said this to people because quite a lot of people are, you know, say that how, how have you done this sober? And I'm so glad that I got sober kind of by chance, right? Kind of at a random, random time. There was no official rock bottom. There was no dui, there was no arrest, there was no particularly scary situation. And the fact that I was sober, in order to navigate all of those things, really helped me because otherwise there would've been, I don't have a driver's license, but there would've been some kind of D U I there would've been some kind of police involvement. And so for every boss level that I have fought, I've just thought, thank fuck, I'm already sober. Right? Thank fuck. I've done the getting sober part and now this is, this is a big old challenge for me to stay sober through this. what was it? Chichi? Chichi said like, if you, if you if you stay ready, you don't have to get ready. Yeah. And so like, if he stays sober, you don't have to get sober again. Yeah. Right.

Steve: 16:08

I love that. Yeah. And so how do you overcome ruts you may have encountered in your recovery?

Jo: 16:16

I don't I haven't, it, I haven't had enough, like normal time. To fall into a ride. Mm-hmm. There have been too

Steve: 16:26

many crises. Fair enough. Yeah. It's been quite the rollercoaster, so

Jo: 16:30

it has been a gigantic rollercoaster. Absolutely. I am, I'm desperate for like an easy ass year where I can be like, oh my God, I'm so bored. What do I do next? Right.

Steve: 16:41

Yeah. Well, what kind of ruts do you hear people talk?

Jo: 16:47

So a lot of them are to do with relationships, really. Relationships with self, relationship with body, relationship with family members, rela romantic relationships family relationships. It's, again, it's that thing of once you take the, the beer goggles off, you're like, fuck, this is, this is hard. It's true, particularly in the beginning, like the only thing to do is, is just not drink alcohol or to not use. And that is, that is priority number one. But then that doesn't fix everything. Yeah. Like if only it would, that's when the work comes in, right? The work with the capital l w and that's where coaches come in. That's where our therapists come in. That's where groups come in, programs come in and. But I think, yeah, the communication that needs to happen. I think so many people who have, who live with addictions or who live with other people who who have lived with and through addictions, there's so much shame and there's so much secrecy and there's so much hiding. Like what we have been through and what we have done and what we are doing and what we are still going through now. and I think that's, it's really impor important to kind of undo that fear of, if I share with somebody, something bad is gonna happen. Right? It's like, okay, if I share with somebody, maybe they can help, right? Maybe just me being able to share, to share what, what I'm struggling with. maybe that already being able to get it out of my head, and off my heart, maybe that's gonna be, you know, enough of a push to, to actually go into. you know? Yeah. Into the next

Steve: 18:29

step for sure. Yeah. I know when I was reflecting back in our last episode with Kristen, like I kind of, as I was talking through, realized that most of my ruts that I've been through were, were, because I wasn't like doing the work with, like you said, with a capital w, like, it, it, it was because I, like, for me, my work looks like going to meetings, doing service, but also doing the podcast and planning local events for like the queer, sober community and like, doing all of that work. And like when I get ahead on the podcast and I postpone some events and there's like that couple weeks where I'm not doing the work, like I'll notice that I'm kind of feeling that rut. But like of course cuz I'm not doing the work that there, there ha There have been times where I feel like I'm doing everything though and it hasn't worked. I mean, what what do you recommend people do when they, when they, when they are doing the work but not feeling the

Jo: 19:15

results? Oh God. Ooh. That's a really good question and a really big question. Okay, so there's trust, the process, number one, I think again here, community really helps where you, where you can go and be understood by people and be like, you know, I am, I feel like I'm doing all of the work and I'm not seeing the. Is this normal, right? Mm-hmm. you're gonna get a few dickheads who are like, no, it's not normal. Maybe you're not doing the work properly. And then you're gonna get some other people who are like, girl, I am so far, like I'm so much further behind you. Like, you're doing amazingly already. Shut the fuck up. This is great. And then you're gonna get some other old timers who will be like, yeah, it's fine. Maybe trust the, trust the process Yeah. Right. It'll come in its own time. And I think that can. that that in itself can be a game changer of just being like, okay, I'm not the only one who's doing this wrong. Right. Quote unquote. And again, I mean, this is gonna be my answer for, for many of them, but, but like, if you feel like you're doing all of the work and you are not seeing the results and other people are maybe hinting that perhaps you're not working in the right way for you, or for this project or for this, See who you can get help from. Mm-hmm. right? Is there a mentor? Is there a sponsor? Is there a coach? Is there a therapist? Is there somebody who can kind of walk through it with you and see if there's any other way for you to get to get results? Or can you, you know, can you rejig the results that you think that you are? That you deserve right? That you deserve to get. Like what are you doing all of this work for? Are you doing all of this work to get the presidential medal of freedom or are you doing this work to be a happy, healthy, in your own way? Well-rounded individual? If if it's the latter, then you are the one who decides. You know. Yay. Congratulations. Give yourself by yourself some flower Yes. This is great. Yeah.

Steve: 21:18

Now I'm gonna have that new Miley Cyrus song stuck in my

Jo: 21:21

head. Yeah, I know. We, we need to, I've had it. Yeah. For you it feels, yeah.

Steve: 21:25

And if a listener was struggling in their recovery, what advice do you have for them?

Jo: 21:32

Talk, reach out, find someone. Find a group if you. If a 12 step program does not feel right for you, find something that isn't 12 steppy, right? Find someone if you don't want anybody that you know to know create an anonymous Facebook account. Create an anonymous Instagram account. Like it, it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be everything. You know, you don't have to bear your soul and your face and your fucking social security number, like all at the same time. But do reach out and find, find somebody because I mean, the whole thing about service, whether it's in, whether it's within a, a 12 step program or whether it's just like I've got sober and so I'm reaching out my hand to other people. I think most of us in recovery do that. You know, at some point it kind of comes naturally to us to be like, Come over to the fun side of the island, right? Come over. Come over here. Like, can I help you? Yeah. Maybe. Can I pull you?

Steve: 22:33

Excellent. Do you have any last thoughts or bits of pearls of wisdom on overcoming ruts? Yes.

Jo: 22:43

Hang on. I wrote, I wrote the link down. figure out what the problem is, right? Get clear on what the root is what it's, and what it's representing. What is the rep representing? Then figure out if at all possible, if you can do this by yourself. Congratulations. If you need a therapist or a coach or somebody to walk through it with. That's great. That's what we, we are here for. Figure out what the need is underneath. Right. The underlying need. I still think of cravings as toddler messengers to say there is some kind of need that is not being met right now. And I know that if I get, if I get a craving for alcohol, I'm like, okay, alright, where's the, where's the messenger? like what is this craving? What is this need? Then once you've identified the need, it's a simple process of thinking, okay, right. Is this a need that I can meet? Right? Or how can I meet this need? In what way? What's the, what's a goal that is realistic that I can set myself? And once you've got the goal, you define the steps, and then you take the first one, and then you take the second one, and then you take the third one, and then you meet it. And. Slightly simplified obviously, but that's pretty much the process. Right? Identify the problem, figure out the need, goal steps. Mm-hmm. do it and take an action.

Steve: 24:04

Wonderful. And if, if someone wanted to connect with you to talk more or possibly get some coaching or some guidance, how would they find you?

Jo: 24:12

They would find me on the Instagram and the Facebook just under Joe Waldock. So Joe, g J. The French came in then. J o Wal, w a l d u c k. And my website will be live again by then. And that's just joe wal.com. Perfect.

Steve: 24:31

Excellent. Well stick around because I hear you wanna talk about diet culture.

Jo: 24:37

I don't wanna talk, I wanna runt. Excellent

Steve: 24:40

Well, if you're interested in hearing more about Joe and our thoughts on diet culture, head on over to our patreonPage@patreon.com slash gay. And if you're interested in sharing your story or just saying, hi, I'm an email away@gaypodcastgmail.com or on Instagram at gay podcast. Be sure to follow us wherever you're listening so you can get these new episodes when they come out each Thursday. Until next time, stay sober friends.