Swift Steps ft. Jewels & Emily (#196)

Sober Steve welcomes Jewels and Emily from Swift Steps to discuss their experience navigating sobriety and building a recovery community centered around being a fan of Taylor Swift.  (Get it, now?)

Topics include 

• Finding A Community
• Building A Community
• Redefining Recovery
• Identifying Addictions in Art/Music
• Mental Health in Recovery
• And much more

**Where to Find Us:**
- The Swift Steps on Instagram 🟢
- The Swift Steps Website 🖇️
- gAy A on IG 🟢
- gAy A everywhere else 🖇️

Tell a friend to listen today!! Until next time, stay sober!

Transcript

Jewels: 0:00

so many people in our group have said that they found their we in recovery, which is like what they couldn't find before. It's just like, Oh my God, that means I can't even explain what that means to me. So just, knowing that I need genuine human connection. I really didn't know that I needed it. I isolated so much before and these meetings have really brought me a way to focus on myself in a healthy way. I don't really struggle with wanting to take drugs every day anymore. I struggle with my addiction in other ways with sex and love and relationships, and being able to come back to these meetings and say. I didn't go meet up with him like I wanted to or whatever and, and be honest with them. That just means everything to me. I'm just growing like without this group. I don't know that I'd be growing as much as I am.

Steve: 0:51

Hey, there are super sober heroes. It's your host. So receive the podcast guy here with a, another amazing episode of gay, the super sober hero show. I am so psyched to share with you my, the interview I had earlier this week with the girls from the swift steps. But before we get into that, I am happy to report that I am 1,102 days sober from drugs and alcohol. Thank God one day at a time. And today I am grateful for the awesome week I had last week celebrating my 3 years sober. And I'm grateful for the amazing time I had last week celebrating my third year sober. I had strep throat during the week, which hampered some of my plans, but I still managed to have a nice socially distance, an isolated outdoor beach day on my sober birthday. Got to go out and eat outside for dinner with my husband and had an amazing meal. And it was a great sober birthday heading number three, and being able to reflect back on what these past three years have changed in my life, because it's been so much. And I also celebrate it on Instagram with all of the listeners who will follow me on there. And had an ask me anything. And so for those of you who don't follow on Instagram, I'll share some of the key topics or things that we discussed on my anniversary through Instagram, through stories. The first question that I had received was which step did I struggle with the most? And my answer was, and still is the fourth step. The first time through it took me a while and I thought that I'd done. So, so, so deep. And that all the work that they would ever possibly need to be done in my fourth step. And. The for too long. And as I've. Had more time under my belt. I realized I barely scratched the surface as more things come to light. And as I remember more and as I dig deeper and so I am very grateful the second time around to be spending more time on step four, digging real deep and unearthing some things that didn't come up the first time around. That's why we do these more than once. If we're doing the steps. And another question was about how do I define happiness today? Which was very difficult for me to think about because happiness was very superficial, the way that I viewed it before sobriety. And I also was very confused over why everyone else seemed to be so happy while I was so miserable inside. And I had to really think back because I am very happy now on a regular basis, but I was trying to define what that happiness feels like or when I'm feeling at the most. And what I came to is that I'm feeling it the most when I'm really just trusting the process when I'm living in the second and third step, knowing that. I'm not God, I can't control the world around me. I can't control the people around me. I can't control the things around me. I am just needed to show up to every situation that I can doing the best that I possibly can. And as long as I'm doing that and keeping my side of the street clean. I just need to have trust and faith that everything will work out. And when I'm doing that, the best is when I'm at my happiest, there is not. That's why. And that's the constant state where sometimes we trust the process a little bit more than others. Sometimes you want to grab the wheel a little bit tighter. Other times we feel a little more comfortable trusting that, you know, we can let go a little bit and relax our grip. But that's definitely the way that I define happiness right now is when I just, I'm kind of in that perfect kind of cruise control sense of just trusting the process of my life and that everything will work out. As long as I keep being me. And also we talked about the three key principles. Those were things that I said, like were vital to my recovery. The first of which is not comparing. I myself like negatively against other people's recovery. Not like looking up to everyone being like, oh my God, that person's recovery is so perfect or it's so much better than mine. Or putting myself down for the fact that I might work a different program, or it might look differently than other people's. And not like being hard on myself in that aspect. While also on the flip side, number two, let's not get judgmental. We've all seen better old Queens and meetings. We call them old timers in 12 step programs. But like a lot of the people who have been in a lot of times, forget that judgment piece. And I've heard someone who had complained that newcomers would raise their hand in meetings to share. And it was just like, they thought that they knew so much better than everyone else like these people because they have more time. And it just mystifies me because I know that I can learn a lot from people with less time than me, just as much as I can with people from more time than me. And people who work different programs. And I try and keep a very open mind from where I can get things. And I try not to judge others. There's enough of that in the real world that I hope that most of the time, most interactions in these rooms and in these recovery spaces are safe and free of judgment. That's what makes them so beautiful generally. So we want to avoid the people who do get judgy about what other people's lives and recovery and programs look like. I'm like if they're not my sponsor or my higher power or myself, You know, it doesn't matter. So avoiding judgy avoid comparing yourself. And then also it was avoid like limiting yourself. I was very big, even my first two years of when I found something that worked, I was like, well, this is how it's always going to be. And if I tried something and it didn't work, I was like, well, I'm never doing that again. And it became not only the way that I was approaching my recovery, but the rest of my life as well. And it became very limiting and restricting and I started to feel suffocated. And so it was only in the past six months. Where I stopped saying things like always and never, I can't do that, or it'll never happen for me, or I see what people think and all those types of limiting thoughts and beliefs, and kind of just. Crumbled them up, threw them out the window. And there's been a lot of changes since then that have been really super awesome. So it's been working for me living by those three key principles. So there was more to review, but at the same time, that's also why you want to be following me on Instagram at gay podcast, I am on all the socials, Tik, TOK, Instagram, Facebook. You can find episode announcements and big content there, but if you want to get involved in the day-to-day discussion, That's where it's at. It's Instagram and Instagram stories. We've been talking about some controversial things like gray areas of recovery. And everyone always has. Thoughts and opinions. And it's super exciting because I used to be terrified about making waves or asking questions, or I wanted everyone to ever listen to this podcast to think that like, this is perfect. And I realized that you can't make everyone happy. All the time for everything, even when it comes to sobriety, which is wild, because we're all rooting for the same thing to help each other stay sober. But I want to make sure that I'm asking fun, engaging questions and having conversations and not shying away from things. And speaking of not shying away from things that is a great way to transition over to the interview with I had with these two amazing women from the swift steps, Jewels. And Emily, I will pass you over to myself from yesterday with the interview that I had in joy. All right. Hey there, everyone. It's SoberSteve here with Jules and Emily from The Swift Steps. Hey, ladies. Hi. Hi. Yes, and I am so excited to get into a little bit about what you do before we get into more about the two of you. So what would you say, how would you say the Swift Steps, what are they for someone who doesn't know?

Jewels: 8:02

So there aren't any steps in Swift Steps. Swift Steps is a group of Swifties where we come together and we share our challenges and we share our triumphs and we share hope and we share all about our recovery journeys, no matter what that recovery journey is, whether it happens. to do. With alcohol or drugs or toxic familial relationships or codependency, whatever it is, whatever your struggles are, if you're a Swiftie and you feel comfortable with other Swifties, you'll likely like the vibe of our meetings and feel connected and want to share and Support one another and that's kind of what we've been doing.

Steve: 8:39

That's awesome. And I love it because I'm very big on the podcast that even though I use the 12 step program that saved my life as my primary method of recovery, I also dabble in all the other methods out there because I feel like it's kind of like this whole world is like a shopping cart where you could just take what you want and put in your cart and you can like put the stuff you don't like back on the shelf and leave it for someone else who wants it because someone else will like it just fine, but that everyone's recovery is valid and that. All of our journeys look differently. How did you two meet?

Jewels: 9:07

So that's a funny story. Actually Emily's mom was my boss and she had mentioned that her daughter had gone through some traumatic things and told me about one of them. And I was like, okay, like, I feel like I'm going to get this kid and this kid will get me. And I reached out to her on MySpace, believe it or not. And we started chatting through there. And then we just kind of became close and I was more like this older sister and she was kind of like this almost like bratty little kid. And That was kind of the relationship that we had over the years. And then and over the last five years, we're kind of in that same like age bracket where you're checking off like that 30 to 35 off 35 mark. And we're like, we're doing a lot of the same like things. And now we're just kind of like, now we're More like sisters and not like an older, younger sister thing, you know? And so that's how we met, but that's how our relationship has grown over time.

Steve: 10:01

Yeah. I love that. And I love how that dynamic has shifted because I can imagine how, like when you're younger and you're a teenager, having four or five years of an age difference can feel like a lot in terms of being able to give someone else advice and have that kind of older, younger sibling or mentor role and how it shifts that when you're in your thirties, it kind of age levels out pretty quickly once we're all adulting the same way.

Emily: 10:22

Yeah.

Steve: 10:23

Excellent. And why don't we dive in a little bit about what your journey with alcohol or whatever your journey was about got you to where you are today.

Jewels: 10:32

So I grew up in a household with my mother and my father both being heroin addicts and everybody in my family struggled. with addiction or addiction in some form. And so my childhood was, my childhood was quite tumultuous. And I grew up hating and vilifying anybody who struggled with substance use disorder. And I truly believed that it was a choice. Until Opiates set my ass straight, basically I, I went to the doctor for an injury and I thought, you know, these are just being prescribed in an office. It's not a big deal. Oh, I like how they feel. Okay. Well, when it's time to stop, I'll just stop taking them. It's not that hard. Like, it's a choice, right? Like, and if it's that bad, I'll go to rehab. I'm strong. I have willpower. And that's just not how it goes, and so I struggled for a very long time and at some point I was given a choice to save my job, and I went to treatment, and while I was there, I was kind of just like, I'm just gonna hide it better when I get out, like, I need money to buy my drugs, so yeah, I'm gonna keep my job, I'm gonna do what I have to do there, but I went to treatment, and while I was there, thankfully I have like a couple, for me, they're not God moments, but they were like moments of clarity. You know, people call them God moments and I just knew that I wanted to give it a shot and I did and I have been sober ever since. Yeah, so that's kind of my journey with substances, but like opiates and benzos were my jam and my mom and I. We're both on active addiction together and we manipulated one another and it was just like this really cyclical, terrible, just over and over and over of the insanity type stuff. It was pretty crazy, but I'm happy where I am now.

Steve: 12:31

Thank you for sharing that. And I'm glad you're happy where you are now. And Emily, tell us a little bit about your journey.

Emily: 12:38

Sure. So when I was younger. I had three older half siblings that were my father's children, but not my mother's children. The youngest of those three was, is Jewel's age, would be Jewel's age now. When I was 11, she was maybe 19 or 20 and she, she, she was using drugs from a young age, like through high school. And when she was 19 or 20, she had an infection from I don't know what, I don't know what she was injecting. IVs. Yeah, IVs. And so she got an infection from that, that went to her heart, and she passed away from that infection. So, when I was in fourth grade, a year before this happened, I wrote an essay on why drug use is bad and why people should not do this. And my father told me that I should show this to my sister. And I was like, why? Like, she's not, she knows what she's doing. You know, she doesn't need this. I had no idea what was going on. And so then when she passed away, I carried a lot of guilt with me. Like, what if her little sister showed her this? And what if this would have changed her mind? I don't think that it would have, but as a child, I think I hold like, Oh my God, I could have done something. And I chose not to, even though I didn't really know that this was a problem. And then she passed away and that's when I found out about her problems. So I found out about her passing and her whole history at one time. I've carried that with me. There was some resentment about people who use drugs for a few years after that. But more in my adulthood, I understand that it's not a choice. And I understand that this isn't something people want to be doing. Like they want it in the moment, but this isn't like a life that they want, or it really is an addiction, you know? So being part of Swift Steps helps me connect with her since I didn't know her at that time, cause I was too young to know what was going on. So this really helps me get to know her in a sense. through other people doing the same thing, to be like, what was her life like? Because they can tell me a little bit about their life and I can kind of fill in what her life could have been like and how much trouble we were all going through and all of these siblings handled it differently and this was her path unfortunately. So this, this group is, changed my life in, in a way to like connect with her and, and Jules being her, what her age would be now is like so special and it's like almost, Filling in that absence I've had for so long.

Steve: 15:31

Well, thank you for sharing that. And I definitely love how oftentimes, I've even joked in my like sober like rec in my recovery, like looking at other people who don't, who aren't alcoholics or who aren't addicts, and I was like. I wish like the, I wish there was like a 12 step program or a recovery program for them just to learn how to like be a person because I feel like so much of what we get from like community is like realizing that when we're all sharing authentically what we're going through, what we're struggling with, what we're even doing well with and like celebrating the successes as well as commiserating over the struggles. It makes us all realize that we're not. All as unique and special and alone as we thought that we were before. And, but like in a way that like, it's beautiful. Cause it also makes us feel more connected to each other. So taking for your stories from where you were to where you are now with swift steps, when did that become an idea and how did it become a reality? So,

Jewels: 16:27

I've had a TikTok for a couple years I guess during the pandemic I got on TikTok and I just realized that there was like this whole other recovery community that I had like no idea about and I didn't know about them being open to medical marijuana and harm reduction and like all of these things that really kind of blew my mind and I was like, wow, this is amazing. But I didn't see it like in person anywhere in meetings, I still kind of saw the same thing in meetings. And anyway, I just kept making recovery content. I gained a little bit of a following and I knew I wanted to do something with it, but I wasn't sure what. I wanted to help other people with their recovery, but I knew I didn't want to go back to school. So the quickest, most expeditious route to make sure that I had some training was to become a peer specialist. So I was going to be a recovery mentor, started a business called Blank Space Recovery, and I was going to hold drop in meetings. For Swift Steps, for Sober Swifties, and it just, it turned into Swift Steps, and it took off, basically. I had this, this thought where it would be really cool to have the same vibe that Emily and I felt at a Taylor Swift concert, like, outside, at the stadium, we couldn't get tickets, we couldn't get in, we were just outside with everybody else. It was So safe, so supportive, so accepting, like, I never felt so physically, bodily safe, and, and so, like, emotionally, spiritually, like, all the way safe. And it felt like the closest to Barbieland we were ever gonna get. So, like, we were like, let's, let's host these, like, Swiss steps meetings. And then that just became the thing. Like that just blew up. And so white space recovery became like, okay, that's like, I have to focus on this thing now because this is what people like clearly want and are, are needing. And so we just started nurturing that. And it started with it just being for sober swifties, but now it is a recovery community just I mean, recovery community for Swifties, not sober Swifties, it's all Swifties, you know, just like going through the daily experience of like being a human on this earth is just trying to like get through another day with whatever chemical imbalances we have with whatever mental health challenges we have, like with whatever. So, I feel like it's at our meetings, we get to kind of do that. And also we get to talk about all different kinds of recovery. And you're allowed to talk about harm reduction and you're allowed to come to meetings if you've relapsed or even if you're loaded. Like, that's when you need to share the most. So anyway, that's kind of like how it snowballed and where we got to. Now.

Steve: 19:21

Yeah. And tell me a little bit more about whether it was that moment at the, the Swiftie concert or just Taylor Swift's music in general. How has that shaped your lives and touched your recovery?

Jewels: 19:33

So me and Emily are very big Swifties and we went to the 1989 concert together and we were like planning for months like, are we going to get tickets? When are we going to buy the tickets? Back then you could still get some day of and we did and we got we were against the stage and it was like the best show It was so amazing. We had the best time and That I was in active addiction. I was high that night. I definitely was taking pills I remember dropping one on the floor or on the ground emily And I picked it up and you were like, are you gonna take that and I was like no I turned around and hopped that shit I was like, oh, yeah, i'm not wasting this. But anyway yeah that You That night was so fun, and it meant so much to me, because 1989 really helped that album, helped me get up every single day to fight another day, like going through withdrawal without medication, without my drug of choice, whatever it is, and like being in pain, because I have fibromyalgia, and my addiction does coincide with my pain, and like I can't use opiates to cope with that anymore. But then, like, 1989 just put like a pep in my step. I can't really explain it to you. It just like gave me this like oomph to keep going to be able to walk through the disgusting concourse and like make it to the building or work another eight hours to get home and just try to fight another day. And then You know, over the last little bit, Taylor's really exploded. And I moved back in with my mom and my sister because I'm recently separated. And my sister has recently become a huge Swiftie over the errors for watching all the bunch of stuff on Tik TOK. And so. It's just kind of become just like fully a part of my life. And I just connect with her music and like all of the toxic breakup songs. I can relate them all to my drug addiction. Every single one of them that that toxic dance of like, am I going to stop? Can I stop? I don't want to stop. I need to like all of that, you know? So yeah, as she Taylor Swift is just like everything and runs through almost every part of my life, but yeah, that's, that's how she relates for me. How about you?

Emily: 21:37

Well, she's been a huge part of our life since 1989, the album, and, and we've been obsessed since, but more recently with our meetings, like our, her lyrics always meant a lot to us and we would talk about them individually, but in now every Saturday we have a song or lyric prompt meeting and we break down each song and or lyric and how it relates to our recovery and whichever situation we're in and someone's perspective is always different and it's really interesting to hear how each song relates to everybody and we all love it for different reasons and like feel it in our hearts in a different way.

Jewels: 22:16

Yeah, those are my favorite.

Steve: 22:19

Yeah. I can only imagine. I could totally vibe with that because I know like with music in general, just the, you know, and you mentioned like breakup songs is one of the things that people think of when they think of like Taylor Swift, especially it's like, Oh, I love her breakup songs, but it's like when I ended my relationship with alcoholic, that was the longest relationship I'd ever had with. anything, like longer than with people, like it was in my life longer than like through relationships and friendships and family issues and everything like that. I always had alcohol. And so like, now that I look back when I was in it, I didn't realize that I considered it such an important part of my life or such an important relationship that I was having. But I now like when I do listen to breakup songs, I can hear yeah, it was a relationship that I really had to end. So, with Swift Steps, what's one thing that you've learned about your recovery journey that you wouldn't have learned if you weren't doing Swift Steps?

Emily: 23:09

I'll go first. I, I'm in recovery for other things, like not drugs or alcohol, but like codependency and toxic relationships. I have a lot of mental illness, so I'm constantly recovering. There wasn't a space for people to go to. in mental health recovery, like there is with this group. And I didn't know I needed that until we started doing it. But, and so many people can relate to the feelings of addiction, or disappointment, or codependency with alcohol, or people, or anything. And I never, what it's brought me is like, connection to this group of people that I never thought I would fit in. But I do, and it's really like, my people, and they, they get me, you know? I, it's like, brought me to these people that I never would have thought I would have related to. Like, oh, they're an addict, why would I relate to that? You know? But it's like, we can all relate to that in some sense. And I didn't realize, I didn't, I didn't. really realized that before we were involved in this group.

Steve: 24:15

Yeah, I can imagine it was my natural instinct before recovery to compare rather than identify, and the fact that you were able to identify with these people is beautiful. What about you, Jules?

Jewels: 24:26

So for me I, I really, truly believed that rehab wouldn't help me. I truly believed that community was something that I did not need. I really, really isolated and tried to do things on my own. So, I went to AA for a year out of treatment because it made everybody around me feel better. Not for me. I didn't really enjoy it. It was like, okay, I got something out of it. Like, whatever. But I only went once a week, once I got my one year coin, I peaced out because I didn't like how they talked about maintenance and a lot of other things. And I didn't go to another, like, support group, recovery meeting, anything for, like, the next seven years. Unless somebody called me up and said, hey, I relapsed, or hey, so and so needs to go to a meeting, or whatever. That would be my first instinct, which would be like, okay, let's go to a meeting, because, like, that's all I knew to do, too. So. So if we weren't doing this meeting, I wouldn't have really, I mean, if we weren't doing this group, I wouldn't have really realized how much I actually really genuinely do need connections. And like Emily said, finding her people, like so many people in our group have said that they found their we in recovery, which is like what they couldn't find before. It's just like, Oh my God, that means I can't even explain what that means to me. So just, knowing that I need genuine human connection. I really didn't know that I needed it. I isolated so much before and these meetings have really brought me a way to focus on myself in a healthy way. To come back and to reflect to them the things that I'm going through and them to support me through it, and knowing that I wanna come back and remain accountable to them about certain things. I don't really struggle with wanting to take drugs every day anymore. I struggle with my addiction in other ways with sex and love and relationships, and being able to come back to these meetings and say. I didn't go meet up with him like I wanted to or whatever and, and be honest with them. That just means everything to me. I'm just growing like without this group. I don't know that I'd be growing as much as I am.

Steve: 26:38

We're all growing at our own pace and getting it out in our own words. But with that, speaking of growing, thinking of where Swift steps is now, where would you like it to grow in the next couple of years?

Jewels: 26:52

Oh, I would love for it to grow as big as possible. I want it to reach all the Swifties that. That are the right audience. I want it to reach all the Swifties that would love it. So I would like to grow it as big as possible. I don't know exactly what that means, but in the near future, we do have a lot of fun, exciting things coming up. We're going to be rolling out some products in the next couple of weeks, teasing some things. We're really excited about that. So we're, we're starting to do a slow build now, but We wanted to be as big as possible and to reach as many people as possible, but we don't know exactly what that looks like yet, because we're still very, very new. It's still under six months for us, though. We're still coming up with like all these ideas, but we do have some stuff that's coming out in the next two weeks. So that's an exclusive. You're the first one to hear it.

Steve: 27:41

Ooh, excellent. Well, I can't wait to see as you guys grow, especially, I can only imagine like what it would be like to get like an endorsement from Taylor Swift or so, I mean, to you both, I'm just lighting up. I mean, what are you like when you close your eyes at night and you're dreaming of where swift steps will take you, what does that look like?

Emily: 27:58

Oh my gosh. We live in a big pink Barbie house. And we quit our jobs and we can have meetings all day long. And one day we'll go on retreats with all of the people in our community and meet everybody in person and have Taylor parties, sober Taylor parties. Okay, I was being

Jewels: 28:15

professional, but let me be delusional now with you, like, that's actually, like, those are the thoughts that we've had, like, oh my god, we'll have a reality show where they like, film our meetings and they get to see, like, what it's really like for people in recovery, and like, we'll just bare all of our shit out, cause like, we're good with being who we are, and like,

Emily: 28:34

you know,

Jewels: 28:34

being honest is good, and people will be able to relate, and so yeah, the pink Barbie house, and being able to run meetings all day, and do virtual retreats, or to travel, or like, I don't even know. Like maybe there could be, we talk about how we do this, we always do this and we call it the chain of hearts. And we say that Taylor's going to write a song about us and shout us out at a concert. Like we have all these delusional fantasies, so we hope it goes. I'm gonna call them

Steve: 29:00

delusional. You never know. They always say you can never, like, you can, people tend to overshoot how much they think they can accomplish in one year, but they always undershoot what they can accomplish in five. So, like, in five years, you can't even imagine right now what this could bring, and I believe in you. So, this is awesome.

Emily: 29:16

Imagine if we meet her. That's the ultimate goal. Meeting Taylor. Well, I was gonna say

Jewels: 29:20

like the, what does that look? That look, what does that look like? It looks like us in a room with her and her being happy about it. Right. Like I just don't ever wanna upset her. I want her to be happy about it.

Steve: 29:31

Alright, well I'll see. Who knows. While we're promoting the episode, maybe we'll get like the Taylor Swift like Dear Post. Well, who knows? Oh my God.

Jewels: 29:37

I would die

Steve: 29:41

Excellent. And any last final words for people who are on the fence, maybe about whether or not they should check out the Swift Steps? What might you tell them to urge them over to the website, which I'll link over to for them to check out?

Jewels: 29:53

Well, right now our meetings are totally free. We have four a week. And anybody who comes, they come back. They love it. They always say, I wasn't going to share it today, but I feel so safe here. And I can't believe I'm sharing this. I've never told anybody this before. Like, we hear that kind of stuff all the time. So I think that it's just a vibe that people really appreciate. feel welcome in and they feel safe. And if you're on the fence, I think just check out a meeting, come see what it's about and you don't have to share. You can leave your camera off, listen to us like we're a podcast. We don't care. Just come get the message. Yeah.

Emily: 30:29

You don't have to be also a huge Swiftie if you need this kind of support. You just can't be a hater. But if you want to come for the support, we don't only talk about Taylor, but we just know those people are safe. So, that was like, why?

Steve: 30:45

I would be very shocked if a hater found you through me, because I have yet to encounter haters that tune into me for more than a minute or two anyway.

Emily: 30:52

I met a Taylor hater.

Steve: 30:55

Yes.

Emily: 30:56

Well,

Steve: 30:56

yes, I definitely recommend everyone check them out. If the Taylor sounds awesome, or Swift Step sounds awesome, I think that you two are doing awesome things for the community. So I appreciate you both are definitely sober heroes in my book.

Jewels: 31:09

so much.

Steve: 31:13

Yeah. And if you're listening to this episode on release day, make sure you're also going to be joining us because we'll be on Instagram later today. And if you're listening to this on the replay, check out our timelines because it'll be there. I'll link over to the Swift Steps Instagram and website and all of that in the show notes so they can follow both of you. Okay.

Jewels: 31:30

Thank you. Thank you.

31:34

All right. Do you consider yourself a swift? you might not be converted to Taylor Swift's music now, but hopefully. You've opened your mind about a different recovery commune or you're a different possibility out there. When next time you find someone who is a Swifty might tell them about this new, exciting thing that they can try out that's online. So. Thank you so much girls for joining me, it was a pleasure. And thank you listeners for tuning into another episode of gay. Make sure you stick around and subscribe and follow wherever you're listening so you can get new episodes when they come out every single Thursday, because next week I am having. Richard Addison on to talk about the three T's of his recovery. So until then stay sober.