Leather and Kink in Sobriety ft. Dale

Steve welcomes back Dale for part two of their interview to discuss their experiences exploring and embracing leather and kink after entering recovery. Warning- this episode is *very* sexually explicit!

Opening Discussion: "How do YOU celebrate your birthdays in recovery?"

Topics discussed include

• Our experiences (or lack thereof) with leather and kink before entering recovery.
• Unpacking and getting in touch with our kinks and fetishes in sobriety and step work.
• Ways the Leather and Kink community and Sober communities intersect, both socially and with their principles of safe, sane, and consensual fun.
• The importance of communication in sobriety and in leather and kink.
• Suggestions for getting started if you are new to leather and kink in recovery.
• And much more!!

**Where to Find Us:**
- Dale on Instagram 🟢
- gAy A on IG 🟢
- gAy A everywhere else 🖇️

Transcript

Steve (2): 0:00

Hey, there are super sober heroes. It's your host sober Steve, the podcast guy here today with 1,179 days of sobriety. And while this episode will be coming out on Thursday, I'm recording it on Monday, August 19th, which is my birthday. Happy birthday to me. Birthday sober are certainly the best. And so what I would love from all of you listening that want to get involved or do something special to say happy birthday to me. Is to check out the show notes of this episode or any episode. There's a little button that says, text the show click the button and send a text I would love to know from all of you, how do you celebrate your birthday sober? Maybe a new thing that you started in sobriety that you didn't do beforehand to replace what we might've been spending our birthdays doing before hand. So I'd love to hear. How you spend your birthday sober today? Texted into the show or email gay podcast and with the beauty of podcast magic, whether you're listening right, when it comes out or months later, whatever you say will have value to the people who hear it. So sends it in any way and it will be in the front of whatever episode and I'll be able to include it into a future episode whenever you send that in. It's a great way to get involved with the show, share your thoughts and opinions and your advice to help pay it forward. Because my guests and I only have so many different ways and ideas that we can celebrate birthday sober. So help a fellow sober person out with some ideas, send it into the show. You can click the show button, make sure if you'd like credit for your question to add your name and maybe your city. You could just do your first name or your first name and initial for anonymity if you'd like, but I don't see any information when it comes in. So even if I know you in real life, don't think that I'll know that it's your number because it's through Buzzsprout fan mail. I don't see your information for texts it, which makes it also safer for you for anonymity. So send him what you want, but if you want kudos, please give me your name. Today's episode is gonna be so exciting. I had a pleasure continuing my conversation with Dale last week about kink and sobriety. That is where we met was through a leather and kink meeting. And so I wanted to give him his chance for you all to get to know him and his story and how he got here. This week, we're going to have more of a little back and forth where I'll talk about how my King's journey has been ignited in sobriety, as well as his experiences with sober kinky sex. Given that content, this episode's going to be really explicit because we're not going to tip toe around these conversations, especially Dale with a little more experience. We'll definitely go there. As we continue this conversation. So the context is more sexual explicit than normal. If that's going to make you blush hang tight, and next episode will be much less sexy as we chat about emotional sobriety and boundaries with Melinda. That'll be like a nice cold, emotional shower after this. Week's sexy talk. If you are ready to get sexy, here's my interview. Enjoy.

Steve: 2:55

Hey there, super sober heroes. It's Steve here with Dale again. Welcome back, Dale.

Dale: 3:02

Hello, Steve. Glad to be back.

Steve: 3:05

Yes. And for those of you who haven't listened to last week's episode, definitely go back and check it out. This is going to be a sexually explicit conversation because you're kink, right?

Dale: 3:17

Exactly. Kink and sobriety.

Steve: 3:19

Yes, because we met through a leather and kink recovery group, which I am so glad I found was something that existed. Why don't we then jump right into it and tell me a little bit about what kink and leather and all of that meant to you before sobriety? And then into your sex life.

Dale: 3:38

For me I really didn't associate Leather and Kink together. I just remember when I was a kid, I was looking at a magazine article and there was a picture of a motorcycle cop. Wearing the tall motorcycle cop boots I was probably like 10 or 11 and for some reason that caught my eye and I was like, I like that Subsequently, I started exploring leather and Realized that I got really turned on by guys wearing leather the first one was, of course the guy, the leather dude and the village people, I thought he was just like, he was the epitome of what I thought a leather man was. And I didn't know a whole lot about it and I just started collecting, pieces myself and in my early 20s, I bought my first pair of chaps and found out that there were leather bars to go out to but it honestly wasn't until I started getting sober 6 years ago that I realized that leather is actually more of a lifestyle and it is a There's a whole community. And there's even a sober community involved in it and it's based around a lot of principles that are honestly similar to the principles in sobriety. In the last 6 years, I've really embraced it and I consider myself a leather man now, because honestly I want to be the best Leatherman that I can be and honesty, open mindedness and willingness are, some of the main principles of sobriety and there's some of the main principles of Being a Leatherman directly connected to that is the fetish and kink world it's wow like a kid in a candy store when I started discovering this so I don't just play dress up anymore It's a way of life for me

Steve: 5:47

Yeah, I love that because the way you explained your experience I definitely was later into experimenting with leather because I was very much always not only an isolated drinker But also very much concerned about what was right quote unquote and wrong and how other people perceived sex and sexuality growing up with Catholic religious trauma having gay sex, period, was already bad enough, but if I was doing it wearing leather, that was even worse,. That was at least the perception I had in my mind, it was worse, or dirtier, or you were having group sex in a dungeon full of consenting adults because there was more than one person and you were wearing leather and maybe they were doing kinky stuff and in my mind that was worse. I was so Concerned with the perception of what's good and bad, right and wrong, that I considered anything kinky or leather outside of Halloween or, a special occasion behind closed doors with a boyfriend at the time something that we weren't supposed to talk about or do that was, bad or dirty. And it's interesting, because in sobriety, And meeting you and the whole leather community, it's not only a community of people and a lifestyle, but it's also, about the consent and communication, all of that's so beautiful more vanilla sex should take some of those components from the leather and kink world that I'm learning rather than pushing it aside as bad, like I used to perceive it

Dale: 7:01

oh, exactly. For the longest time it was just playing dress up and trying to find other people that wanted to play dress up with me. But in sobriety, it's all about everything has to be safe sane and consensual. There also is an aspect of chemistry, depending on what people are into whatever your kink is whatever your fetish is There's a lot more than just a casual hookup For years and years, I was primarily a bottom submissive and in sobriety i've embraced my dominant side Kind of push the sub to the bottom to be a good dom you have to know what your sub likes A good Dom takes a situation or a play session and gets the submissive in the right headspace that they willingly want to submit to the Dom want to please and safe and consensual, You never want to make somebody do something they're not comfortable with. Being a dom is not about forcing somebody to do something. It's about getting them in the right headspace that they willingly want to do it. And all of this is discussed typically beforehand, It just makes everything so much more fun, honestly. There's none of this awkwardness. That usually happens when, I was trying to make things happen,

Steve: 8:39

I've learned that unlike if you were to, for instance, decided that you wanted to top today or bottom today, that you can hop on the apps and you can pretty much find someone pretty quickly to scratch that itch for you. Experimenting and exploring BDSM and Leather and Kink is a little bit more of a slow process of finding that person with the chemistry where you're not going to be able to just manifest them in your own backyard overnight and it might take some time and I've learned a lot of the more experienced people that I've talked with do start off their first meetings like with coffee still or like meeting out for tea or going out and it doesn't automatically start In the bedroom or in the dungeon acting out the scene. Oftentimes there is that meeting and communication first that I feel like a lot of times in the casual hookup culture has been lost.

Dale: 9:22

Oh yeah, exactly. And to me, it's more fulfilling than just a casual hookup too. Casual hookups are just, They have their purpose. Like you said, they scratch an itch, but basically a play session is what we refer to as a

Steve: 9:39

deep tissue

Dale: 9:40

massage

Steve: 9:41

compared to.

Dale: 9:44

Exactly. That's very good. That's exactly it. It's there's a lot goes behind it. Ultimately, I think it does more than scratch that itch, it's more fulfilling, sometimes you may not even actually get to having sex, it may just be about an exchange of power, the basis behind, being a dom and a submissive. There is an exchange of power there. The submissive likes to give away his power and the dom likes to take it. Or exerts it more appropriately.

Steve: 10:18

I find that even people that might not be kinky and into leather when they get sober, the longer you're sober, if you stick around long enough, you're going to find that there's something kinky about you that you've been holding on to or suppressing for so long. Would you agree?

Dale: 10:32

Oh, absolutely. The whole point of, embracing your sobriety and having a spiritual journey when you do that is so that you can have a fun life, and there is pretty much nothing you can't do. sober. And clean that you thought you had to have drugs or alcohol to do.

Steve: 10:55

Yeah. When you were talking about exploring your kink, I was able to relate to, so oftentimes I've always been very submissive sexually because almost Oh, I don't want to Whenever I'm trying to be more assertive or dominant, like the fear becomes like, what if I hurt them or what if I do something that they don't like? And it's very much like worried about their boundaries. But since exploring the Leather and King community and learning about safe, sane and consensual communication, the fact that as I'm able to communicate what my wants and desires are with my partner, who then is able to say back what they want and their limits and we can test them out together, it gives me that kind of power and confidence to be able to go into that scene or exchange and be a more dominant or assertive or, rougher than I normally would because I know that we've talked it out in advance and they're ready to go there with me oftentimes I can't even imagine experiencing leather and kink in my active addiction because sex for me was about disassociating I would enter that scene or exchange and check out and I don't even know where my mind would go. But my body would stay behind, but I wasn't there. I would just check out, so I don't know how that would go, where now I get to be fully present in these scenes and be constantly checking in with my partner to make sure it's, good for them, that it's good for me, that we're both on the same page. In the 3 or 4 years of being sober, I've had more quality sexual experiences than in my first, 33, 34 years of life before that.

Dale: 12:17

Oh, I agree with you 100 percent on that. And I've also found that in sobriety, I'm more concerned about the other person, finding the pleasure that they're looking for out of the scene. It's not so much, what I'm getting out of it anymore. I'm getting off on What the other person is experiencing and it's an amazing thing,

Steve: 12:46

I remember very early on it started for me with harnesses and with Halloween with experimenting with different things. I didn't even realize until recently that my 1st BDSM scene that I acted out was actually. Right after college with a boyfriend at the time where it was Halloween, We were talking about how we were going to have sex afterwards and I was the teacher and he was the student And like what we would do with the ruler and like this and that with different positions we Talked it out throughout the night as we were at our party with our friends whispering in each other's ear building it up, when we got home it pretty much went exactly according to plan and it was really an awesome exchange but that at the time i didn't realize like what i was doing with the whole communication consent all of that but that was what a scene is i didn't realize that at the time and then it was like years of fumbling around and trying to figure things out before i would dress up with a harness for halloween but again it was more of wearing a costume or trying to like channel something than it was a lifestyle or something that i was serious about exploring When did you start exploring leather and kink and how did you start?

Dale: 13:50

I can tell you that for me being isolated in high school and even college, everything started for me when I moved away to go to grad school. And I discovered that there was a Leather Levi bar in Memphis, and I started going I saw all these guys dressed up from head to toe and it really sparked my interest At that point I just started doing reading and this was actually when the internet just started In sobriety, I have found that social media is an incredible space to reach out and find others like us. There is even now a it's soberleathermen. org, and it is a website that, if you're going to any of these, There are leather fetish and kink events throughout the year. International Mr. Leather, IML Claw, M. A. L. Smokeouts.

Steve: 14:55

If you were rich and didn't have to work, you could spend the weekend at either a roundup Or a Leather and Kink event. And that would be just your 52 weeks a year because there is one Leather and Kink festival, I swear, every fucking week. And it's awesome that you have those options.

Dale: 15:13

And it's through that, that you are able to start meeting other people and just start talking about stuff and start exploring what you're into. And it's pretty amazing. I had no idea the extent that this went to, and I am so grateful that it is there I consider myself a Dom switch leather pick. So I can do either Dom or submissive, why miss on anything? Let's have the best of both worlds, let's be able to do Dom or submissive leather. And then I pig just because I like some nasty things sometimes. I like a guy that smells like a man. I like sweat and that kind of stuff. I'm into piss. I will lick a guy from head to toe if he is nice and sweaty. And I expect the same thing. There are degrees and extents, everybody's got to find their own thing.

Steve: 16:12

I was gonna say everyone finds their own thing Yeah so far a lot of that is more just like I would i'm open to trying anything once but none of that could answer me as excited as much as like the idea of Spanking, whipping, flogging, impact play, being tied up, like tying people up, that's a switch. I love that switch wasn't a term that I had heard before entering these communities. And were you the one who explained it to me? It's like versatile, except that it's not code for bottom Someone said it that way. They're just a big

Dale: 16:41

old bottom. Yeah. And but like ring true.

Steve: 16:44

cause I was always the type where one day I want to change it to top, and one day I wanna change it to bottom one day. It's versatile. Depending on what I want and the person, it's about that energy exchange and that vibe. And yeah, it can switch depending on the wind. But I love that first little so many times when you see people use that you're like, that's code for bottom.

Dale: 16:59

Yeah, there's just a big old bottom. And every pig is different too you're into the more impact related stuff I enjoy that too. I've got a friend that calls himself a fisting pig, because he loves it, Doing this sober has allowed me to find out that there are other people out there that may not be in sobriety, but if they're really into, kink, they understand that they don't want to dull it by drugs or alcohol. There will be people out there that only want to play. So

Steve: 17:30

I'd say with most things in sobriety and in life, like in terms of exploring kinks, the way to do it is to start talking about it, with other people and exploring it in safe spaces with people that you trust, many of the other things I've learned about me that I used to be ashamed of, like my alcoholism, gayness, like my interest in leather and kink is also just part of who I am and nothing that I need to be ashamed of today, so I love that sobriety's given me that gift and you should take that gift and explore it yourself too.

Dale: 17:59

Exactly. Embrace yourself.

Steve: 18:02

Yes. Embrace yourself and a whole bunch of other strangers in the process. All right. Thank you so much, Dale, for chatting a little bit more about kink and sharing that side of you. It's been a pleasure. I'll make sure I link over to your Instagram and everything for the listeners to find you as well as the leather recovery website directory that you mentioned. Thank you so much, Dale.

Dale: 18:25

Thanks, Steve. I loved it.

Steve: 18:27

And thanks listeners. Make sure that you follow Adele and follow this podcast wherever you're listening right now so you can get new episodes every Thursday. Until next time, stay sober.