Sober Support from The Vault (Part Two)

In this week’s episode, host Steve Bennet-Martin, aka Sober Steve the Podcast Guy, continues the dive into gAy A's archives with Part 2 of "Sober Support from the Vault." After more than 225 episodes, Steve brings back some powerful early interviews that still resonate today. Whether you’re a new listener or a longtime fan, this episode offers a chance to revisit impactful stories from some of gAy A's earliest guests who continue to make waves in the queer sober community.

Featuring clips from early interviews with Charlie Gray, Danielle (Daisy Soul Child), Michael from Happy Without The Hooch, and Scott, this episode is packed with wisdom, vulnerability, and inspiration. From exploring how sexuality intersects with addiction to understanding the deep support that the sober community provides, this episode is not one to miss.

Key Takeaways:

• Charlie Gray on Vulnerability: Hear how Charlie used his memoir, At Least I'm Not a Frog, to be open and raw about his darkest moments, and why he believes it’s important to be honest about the "dirty" parts of addiction to help others feel less alone.
• Danielle (Daisy Soul Child): In this clip, Danielle talks about coming out as a lesbian in the Black community and how hiding her true identity played a role in her addiction. She offers powerful advice on how accepting and loving yourself can be a key to recovery.
• Michael from Happy Without The Hooch: Michael shares how being gay impacted his relationship with alcohol, especially in a world where LGBT socializing often revolves around bars. He also reveals how he found new ways to build community and connection in sobriety.
• Scott's Legacy: In one of the most poignant clips of the episode, Steve reflects on Scott, a friend and fellow member of his home group who passed away sober. Scott’s wisdom and dedication to sobriety, despite life’s challenges, continues to inspire Steve and the gAy A community.

Follow Us:
Follow gAy A wherever you’re listening to make sure you never miss an episode—new episodes every Thursday!

**Where to Find Us:**
Me:
- gAy A on IG 🟢
- gAy A everywhere else 🖇️
- Charlie Gray on Amazon Books
- Charlie's Instagram 🔴
- Danielle's IG 🟢
- Michael on IG 🟢

Transcript

Steve: 0:00

Hey there super sober heroes. It's your host sober Steve, the podcast guy here with another fantastic episode of gay, the queer sober hero show. I am here with you to present part two of our sober support from the vault. After over 225 episodes, I am bringing back some of my favorite clips for my favorite first handful of guests. There were three last week plus myself. And I've got another set for you today. So I will jump right into it because I'm so grateful that I've gotten to meet and experience all these different peoples. Shares and stories throughout the years of doing this. And I can't wait to bring their stories to you. If you were a newer listener that didn't go back through my entire catalog, which would be understandable. Although I have to admit a lot of you. Do I see with your numbers because addicts love a good binge when it's healthy for us. This is a great chance to catch up on some of those little bits and clips from those earlier interviews that really made an impact on me early on in my sobriety. And I'm sure it can make an impact on yours as well. And if you love the clips, I really encourage you to go back earlier into these episodes and listen to the full interview because. These people have amazing stories and shares to have and find them. Cause all of them are still doing amazing. Bad-ass sober stuff today. So with that, let's start off with a name that no matter when you've tuned into the podcast, you're going to be familiar with, because Charlie is one of my most popular guests in terms of he's been on more often than almost anyone else. He is the author of the, at least I'm not a frog trilogy of quit lit books. And he was such a sober hero when I started this, that I can't wait for you to hear some of his, a very first interview talking about what inspired him to start his book. Series, which at the time was just the one single book. What inspired you to take so many of these very vulnerable parts of your life and publish them into a memoir?

Charlie: 1:59

That is a great question. And really, so the reason that I felt it was very important to be as graphic as I was, my original manuscript was much more graphic and I edited out the It'll work quite a bit to just tame it down because I felt like sometimes it was maybe going somewhere where I was like, that's not really on point with what I'm trying to do. So let's reign that in. But I had read a book and it's called the girl on the train. I can't remember the author's name. That's terrible, but it was a huge, massive book. So you can just search that for your listeners can. And what was beautiful about that book is it's an alcoholic who, witnesses this fantastic event. And. She gets very detailed with her behavior when she's in a blackout and the things that she does or says or sends through her phone. And it was so rewarding for me. At that time, I was very much in my active addiction. I was going to rehabs because I was always going to rehabs. But I was very much in it. And so it was so nice for me to read that on the page and know that I was not as dirty and weird as I thought that really everyone was doing this when they were blackout. It's just, you're always so in your head that you're like, Oh my God, what is wrong with me that I'm sending these text messages like this is terrible. But then I read that and I was like, thank you so much. Whoever wrote this. So that guided me a lot, just knowing that I know there are so many people out there that needed to read that, to know that, no, you're normal, you're just drunk or whatever you're on. It's very normal to be a little dirty and disgusting when you're inebriated.

Steve: 3:47

Yes, certainly. Now, in the beginning of the book when you were in your twenties you mentioned having to expect it to be further, to having achieved more, and that really resonated for me'cause I went through that same kind of feeling in my twenties. But where do you think those feelings came from and how did they affect your addiction?

Charlie: 4:06

I love this question, okay, whew, you're getting deep on me. Obviously, there's socioeconomics and culture at play there, where you're, My upbringing was obviously very particular, go to high school, get good grades, go to a good college, get good grades, be this actor, it was all very mapped out. And I thought I'm taking all these right steps in my youth. To really set myself up for my adulthood and I didn't handle it well, I didn't handle the pressure whenever all of that collapsed and didn't come true for me. I wasn't able to just go out and get the job and be successful that I saw a lot of people around me doing. And I just felt very lacking. And I knew that of course I had the most luxurious and fortunate problems because I had a roof over my head and I had a job, but spiritually. And emotionally, nothing was being fulfilled. And so I was just like I'm doing everything wrong. I have to be because everyone around me is thriving and I'm just pretending like I am when I'm not at all I'm drinking massive amounts of vodka and if you've got pills, let me eat them and I'll smoke that weed too. What I didn't realize is that where a lot of us addiction or not, in recovery or not, a lot of us are doing that. A lot of us are faking it because we've created this atmosphere and this culture of you need to look or do these certain things or you haven't succeeded and you're not going to succeed and you're a failure. And that was really hard on me in my 20s and. compounded with the alcoholism and some other things, of my youth that I talk about in my book, everything was just coming to a head in my early twenties and I was not emotionally equipped to handle it. So I drank and I had a genetic component already, I was predisposed to be an alcoholic. It was just a shit show, man. Do you cuss on here? I, you do cuss on here, but I just feel weird doing it sometimes. I'm like, I've heard him drop the F bomb, but I'll try to keep my mouth clean.

Steve: 6:23

Nope. I always go to earn that explicit rating. I check off. It's just easier to check it off every box than to not. Yeah.

Charlie: 6:28

I'll just say fuck then we'll just get it out of the way. All right.

Steve: 6:32

Yeah. And one section where like I deeply related, even though it was just a throwaway paragraph, so to speak, as you mentioned, having vague memories of sleeping with a couple on camera for money. And it really resonated with me because I remember in my early twenties and even like before I was able to get alcohol, a lot of times I found myself in very similar situations in order to get, and I used to like, joke Oh I guess I just can't run for president and let it roll off my back, but only like now in my sobriety, am I realizing like how deeply. Fucked up. A lot of it was, yeah,

Charlie: 7:00

so fucked up.

Steve: 7:01

Yeah. Why was it important for you to include experiences like this

Charlie: 7:04

I think it harkens back to what we were talking about earlier as I wanted to put the nasty dirty things I had done in there because I wanted to know people. I wanted for people to know that they were okay, that they weren't alone and they weren't wrong. So if I was going to have to air a bit of my dirty laundry. And maybe get some flack or some pushback from that. I was willing to handle that because I knew there would be so many louder voices thanking me for it that would drown out all the bullshit chatter. So I knew I had to get that in there. And it also speaks to. Very rarely did I have to do things such as that. I talk about having to make up lies and pander at a point in the book for money so I can get some vodka and some pickles and then sleeping with these guys. I don't think. I'm, I know I didn't need the money right then, but if they were offering it, of course, my mind was always leading with, you've got to have some money because you got to have vodka. So I wanted to show the desperation that we go to whenever we maybe don't even need to, maybe right in that moment, I didn't need that money, but I knew I was going to need it because of how severe and controlling my disease was over me.

Steve: 8:22

Another hugely impactful guests that I on very early in my recovery and doing this podcast was Danielle. And our episode, the gift is in my wounds. And while I've had multiple people on the show named Danielle to share their story, This Danielle was the first and she certainly left an impact. And you'll see why when you hear this clip. Enjoy. Now, imagine for a moment that you came to face with your past self when you were in that active addiction and drinking, what would you tell yourself in the past with what you know now?

Danielle: 8:58

Honey, this is only temporary. Don't hide. Don't be afraid. There's someone who's going through what you're going through, and what your struggle that you think is really bad today is gonna help someone later, I promise you. That's what I would have told my past self.

Steve: 9:16

Yeah, that's powerful. That's something I think that we all need to hear sometimes.

Danielle: 9:21

Yeah. That's exactly what I would say to her. Get up! Go share your story. Get out of your head. You're not alone.

Steve: 9:29

Yeah. Excellent. Thank you. And being an LGBT plus podcast as well as a recovery woman, how would you say your sexuality played a role in your addiction and then your recovery?

Danielle: 9:42

I love this question, and I'm so glad that I got to be a part of your podcast about this, because I feel to be honest, alcoholism in the Black community is very quiet. There's not a lot of awareness there, number one. And number two, being a lesbian, with that same addiction, it's just, we are a very small group, but I just feel like The awareness is not there. And for me, that is a whole part of why, what I learned about myself when I got sober, it was, I was so sheltered going to not be who I thought I should be. I needed to be someone that's my parents, the way I was raised that I had to be and feel this way, because if you feel another way, it's wrong. And I always knew in my heart about my sexuality. Obviously I have three children. I was with a man and, and when I decided. I think I was 30 years old, that this wasn't my way. Those things and expressing myself, that was for things that were hidden for so long, I think had a lot to contribute to my addiction because I was hiding who I was really, I was afraid I was ashamed. And what we do as alcoholics or addicts is you become in love. With that addiction, right? My love was, I want to avoid any type of feelings. I want to avoid talking about what I am, who I am, what I like, and all of that. And I feel like that was a huge piece. And getting sober was not just stopping the drink or drug. It was finding who I am learning me all over again. And Steve, I was 40 when I did this. Okay. I was 40. So part of that process was loving me for who the fuck I am, who I am. And I became more in tune with who, what I love, what I like. I also became in tune with being okay and accepting myself for who I am. And that was not easy. I had a lot of, comments and shunning from family and friends for a while when I came out. And when I decided to get sober, some parts of my story include my first relationship and sobriety with my girlfriend, who was also the cause of almost a near real relapse for me two years ago, but I didn't, I wrote a book instead and I'm back with her today, and I just feel like the awareness in that, in the LGBT community about us. And struggling with addiction needs to be talked about way more than it does now. Okay. It really does because hiding and isolating and being afraid just to be who we are in this world that we're in today is hard enough. Then add addiction on top of that, and we're afraid we don't want to speak up. We're afraid, people are going to think of us and we should be screaming from the mountaintops. Like literally is why I do it those experiences to make sure that people know we are not alone and this community is awesome. The community that I have found online, the sober and gay community I found online. I haven't even met these people in real life. And these are relationships that I have with people that are cherished to me more than Some family I have I mean legit So i'm glad that you know You asked me to be a part of this and I just feel like it's just one step Closer, right? We always get these little steps, one step closer to bringing awareness, one step closer to helping another person and giving hope to somebody who needs to hear it.

Steve: 13:09

Thank you. I appreciate that so much. That's such a huge reason as to why I do this podcast is like boiling down to that question, like everything else. Before and after is to get to know you better. Cause every story is different and everyone finds solace and, identifying with other people. But I know when I got sober, just like you mentioned, the sober gay community was such a huge part of it. It's such a beautiful thing, but it's something you have to look for and search for because it doesn't, you don't hear about it, especially when you're in your active addiction. Like when in my active addiction, if I went on a date with someone and they were like, no, I don't drink. I would have been like, what's wrong with you? Every gay person drinks like a fish.

Danielle: 13:45

So true. So true. And when you said, look and we had to look, that was what I did. Steve two years ago in the pandemic, I had time and nothing but time, right? That was the time I wrote my book. That was the time that I was searching, Instagram to find these different communities because I am in a community here and locally where I live in a very involved. However, that was just, wasn't enough for me because I always felt like there was a piece missing, right? Most of the people in AA or at least in my community were straight, but I was missing that piece. There's something missing. And I found a lot of groups online, a sober, queer, sober, how they identify themselves in our community. And I started joining those groups and that was what filled that missing piece for me.

Steve: 14:31

Over the course of over two hundred and twenty five, two hundred and thirty plus episodes. I've done plenty of two-part episodes. Now it's become a regular practice when I have a lot of great content. And I don't want to edit it all or cut it all. And I want to give it all to you. But I also know that you all can't always sit there for an hour and a half long. So I've done two part episodes. And I have to admit though that my very first one was a surprise because when I sat down for this interview with Michael, I wasn't expecting to have him have so much to share and be so open and vulnerable and willing to talk. And it was an amazing share and I didn't want to cut any of it. So I turned it into two parts of an episode. And here is Michael from our second part of the episode, happy without the hoot, which is also the name of his Instagram handle and his movement online, which I'll link over to you as he shares how sexuality played a role in his addiction and then his recovery. Now, how do you feel your sexuality played a role in your addiction and then your recovery?

Michael: 15:36

That is a really good question. It's not something I'd actually thought about hugely before I received a little outline of the sorts of questions I'd like to be asked. And so I gave that some thought. It's not something I'd ever really thought had affected my alcoholism or make recovery, but in retrospect, it's something that probably affected it hugely. Here in the UK, LGBT people are four times more likely to form an addiction to alcohol or drugs than non LGBT people. I grew up in the 90s in a fairly conservative part of the UK. In the 90s the attitude towards homosexuality was certainly not as forward thinking. as it is today, especially when I was in a small village in a conservative part of the UK, there were some quite backward attitudes. I knew I was gay when I was 11. It was my last year of what we call primary school. That was a really stupid time to tell people because I then changed school a few months later and I was at the school where I didn't really know anyone. I thought I'd come out and then actually I've not come out to anyone that I now know I decided not to because I'd hear quite a lot, of homophobic slurs, and I realized pretty quickly it really isn't okay to be gay. So I tried to hide it as much as I could. I was fairly flamboyant, not particularly macho. I was rubbish at sports and fitting into all those stereotypes of a gay person. Even if I was trying to hide it, everybody had decided anyway, that I was gay and I was being picked on for being gay, even if I didn't accept that I was. I was always sent through the showers earlier after PE lessons, because. We had communal showers, the ones they decided were gay, would have to go through first, so that we wouldn't be able to look at anyone in the showers. I was always really worried about People I didn't know, knowing I was gay, if I didn't know someone and they might not like gay people. And if they didn't like gay people, they might be aggressive or violent. So when I was going out and trying to socialize at the age of sort of 17, 18, if it wasn't a gay venue and there weren't many near my house because I was in a very, as I said, a conservative part of the UK in a small village with fairly small towns nearby, if it was a non LGBT venue, I was never. I was worried at how people might react so I'd enter a room full of people I didn't know, feeling very nervous, looking quite feminine. I was quite late to develop, like I didn't hit puberty until quite late, so I looked like I was about sort of 13, 14 when I was 18. One way I found that I cared less about what people thought about me was I, Could have a drink. After a couple of drinks, I no longer worried about what people might think about me, whether I'd be accepted, and I wouldn't worry about whether I might be somebody might be aggressive or attacked. It just took away all my worries. And it was that, and I suffered terribly from nerves. So that was actually a real bonus. I never really realized until I gave up drinking how socially awkward I was. I always used to think I was the life and soul of the party, but that was only ever I'd had a few drinks I was annoying people as a drunkard. I think that my sexuality played a real part in the volume that I drunk just to feel comfortable around other people. In LGBT culture is that a lot of that is based around pubs. If you want to meet, and this is before, smartphones and things, and I didn't have a phone until I was 28. I just didn't want to be contacted. So if I wanted to, meet other gay men, that would involve going to a bar. It wasn't like, oh, you can go to a bar. you can meet other gay men in the cafe or that's how you met people and you had to talk to strangers and I wouldn't talk to a stranger unless I was drinking so that perpetuated it the whole LGBT community was based around socializing at bars so that kept me going a third aspect of how being gay has affected my drinking is that my, my brother still drinks, but he drank heavily still does every now and then, but his drinking rapidly changed his relationship with alcohol rapidly changed when he became a parent. He had responsibilities and had to look after kids. He didn't want to be a drunk dad as a gay man, I'm never going to accidentally have children. So I've never had parenthood thrust upon me in that way. And I've never therefore, being compelled to grow up, to make that huge lifestyle change that parenting brings a lot of straight guys. I suppose all of a sudden they've got this responsibility. I never had that responsibility. There is nothing to stop me living as though I was still in the 20s. That Peter Pan syndrome that I think maybe a lot of gay men have because we never have those responsibilities thrust upon us. So I think, yes, actually being gay has impacted my relationship with alcohol in several ways. I drank to feel confident and I never had to stop drinking because I never had responsibilities thrust upon me. Being gay made it a bit more difficult to recover because I wasn't able to build those connections with other LGBT people as I would have liked I wanted alcohol to have nothing to do with my life. And almost every other gay person I knew wanted to be going out to the bar at the weekend. I came to the conclusion, look, you've got to sort yourself out. You've got to learn to love yourself before. Trying to find a guy, just be single and learn to be happy in your own company. Or as RuPaul said, if you can't love yourself, how are you going to love somebody else? So I just sat with my singledom and I didn't specify my friendships by age or sexuality. I just started socializing with people. People who wanted the same thing as me in life. to enjoy the small things, to enjoy sobriety, to build real friendships, not just, friendships based around drinking. I started organizing events in my town. I couldn't find any cafes open after 6 PM. If you wanted to socialize in my town. Especially on Fridays and Saturdays there were no options you could go to the cinema, which involves sitting in silence next to someone, so that's not the best socialising, after which you'd usually go to the pub so you could talk, because you'd been sitting in silence for a couple of hours. I started hosting my own nights on Saturday nights. I put out a post in a local Facebook group saying that I've stopped drinking. And since I stopped drinking, I found that my social life has absolutely plummeted is would anybody else be interested in going? If I can find a cafe that's open, going out and socializing with live music and comedy, maybe on, on Saturday nights. an overwhelming response. I thought maybe a couple of people would message me but I'd had 12 people message me within an hour and then I kept on getting more messages to the point where I thought okay I'm going to just set up a Facebook group to manage these conversations so I set up a Facebook group that within a week 250 people had joined and within the month I'd had 500 people join in my town of people who wanted to socialize without alcohol. I was blown away and I was like, okay I better do something about this now. I found myself a venue, a pop up venue as a disused shop, which is now being used as a community space. They got artists displaying art there. They got like a little bar. I had to buy a load of drinks. I did some fundraising for drinks because I spent all my money on alcohol and I'd got into debt. people started donating money. To actually buy stock. And then I was contacting sort of companies that provides to alcohol free drinks. Some of those provided me with free drinkers, welcome drinks. I started running social events, three out of four Saturdays. I gave myself one Saturday a month off, but I'd have a comedy night. That's been absolutely fantastic, it's introduced me to people I would never have met before. People who I can now call friends. Somebody I call my best friend now, I met from attending one of those events. Then there's loads of other people. If I'm ever feeling down, or I need some help with something, even if it's something boring oh god, I've got to move a load of stuff to the tip, or I've got to take, which, sorry The waste and recycling center. I discovered recently from Instagram that Americans don't call it a tip. I've learned lots of things like that. If nothing else, I've got an online community who's there for each other. If someone slipped up and other people are supportive Some of them will never actually come to events, but others do. We've got a ready made set of friends and we're gonna do more walks. I'm gonna organize my first camping trip this year, cause it's something I love and I now know a few other sober people who love camping. I've got a bit more of a presence on Instagram now and some really good connections in the British sober community who are willing to plug a long camping retreat. I found a site where we can do it. I'm really looking forward to this year going on a camping retreat with Yoga hill walking and music in the yurt. I'm going to release my inner hippie this year and go on that retreat.

24:42

And closing up this, dive into the vault. I wanted to share with you an excerpt from one of the interviews early on that at the time felt like just another recording an interview for me. But since then, it's become one of the more important episodes for me and my recovery, especially in that early stage. And this was the interview that I did with Scott. Scott was a friend that I met in my home group and they quickly became a very constant and steady and safe part for my sobriety. And roughly a month or two after this episode came out and was released. Scott passed away of. At the time it was like natural causes still too young. They passed away sober and they've passed away having worked through the steps and Bennett piece, as you'll hear in this clip. But at the same time, it was the first time where I was under the impression almost when I got sober that. When I got sober, that everything would work out great and I'd never had problems again and there never be any loss. And I know better now because I have enough interviews and I have enough shared shares and I've lived the experience enough to know that the longer we stay in this program, like life still goes on and things happen both in and out of their rooms that are going to be really tragic. But this was my first real heartbreak in their rooms. And I'm glad that it was. Someone in the rooms where I was able to connect with the other people from my home group. And we were able to grieve together and connect together. And. Move past it, together in a healthier way while staying sober and leaning on each other for support, as opposed to if it was a loss outside where I might've felt more isolated or not, I've had the same. Supportive community. So going back and listening through this episode to find clips brought up a lot of feelings and memories associated with this, but Scott was just such an amazing person that I'm really glad. If anything, for going back through these episodes to present this vault for you all. I hope you've all been able to find a lot of value in these sheriffs from this week and last week, but it also going back and reflecting on my interview with Scott and the impact. That they had on my early recovery also was something that I really needed to hear personally right now. So enjoy. My clip with them. And I think that will be a good place to leave the episode as well. So just make sure you're following us. So you get new episodes every Thursday. So then enjoy Scott with some final thoughts on sober support.

Steve: 27:08

What are some of those things that help you stay sober?

Scott: 27:13

The 1, so 1st off, I go to meetings every day. I go to 2, sometimes 3 meetings a day. I go to the same ones every day. I missed the odd 1, but frankly, I go pretty much every day and I got a sponsor right away. And I said, look, I want to do whatever it is that I need to do to get better. This person was happy. He has really bad health, but he's like the happiest person I know. And he said, Oh then there's this program that suggested, but then there's some of these steps that are mandatory. And if you want to get the solution that I and others have, because he said, when you're sober and happy, then we'll work these steps together. And I said, let's do it. And so five and a half months later, I worked my way through. Steps, I'm on step 11 and 12, but I was able to do 4th step inventory. I was able to do amends to people that I've harmed in the past. I go as I say to meetings every day. I call my sponsor every day. I talk to 3 or 4 people or text 3 or 4 people every day that are in the program. I try and be honest with every person that I meet. I try and do service if I'm asked to do it. I will always help another person. Alcoholic or anyone really if they ask or need it. And the interesting thing is, in these last five and a half months I haven't drunk, I haven't used drugs, I haven't gamble, I haven't been to the hospital to have my heart restarted. And so just, those are to to summarize kind of the things I do every day. That's what I have to do because it is, recovery is the priority of my life because nothing else. Good for me will happen if I don't if I don't make it my priority.

Steve: 28:49

Now with all these great things that have been coming since getting sober, what are some of the biggest obstacles you faced in your sobriety and how did you overcome them?

Scott: 28:58

Yeah, it's it's not always easy. I'm making it sound like you do these steps and you chat with people and you go to some meetings and everything should be beautiful. And it's not as I said, I lost my job. I have had some mental health issues. I really, I've never lived alone in my life. And, these last five and a half months I've been living by on my own. I had to make that distinction between. Living alone and actually being alone because I'm not alone because there are so many beautiful people in my life that love me and care about me and are here for me and have talked to me every single day for months and months, and at the beginning was just hard like I cried all the time, some days are good and some days are bad. And I had to learn That's okay, too. Another person in the program just said I would have this kind of, I call this liar in my brain that would tell me everything is bad. I'm never going to meet a person to be with, and I'm never going to get a job, and I'm never going to have to move out of my place. On and on, all these things that were just not true. And he said to me, time cures all of these thoughts and feelings. And I thought about that for a second and it's true. Like I almost had he also told me that I have to just let these thoughts and feelings like walk by like a parade and I'm just on the side, sidewalk watching it go by and don't like, I don't have to jump in to the band and onto the float and get involved in these negative thoughts and feelings. And that's really, yeah, that's been really helpful. But, I've spoken to, got some outside help with just some of these feelings that were overwhelming me for a little bit and I do feel a little bit better now and I also shared it with people in the program and, because there's just so many people I love and trust here and I'm okay. Ultimately, just knowing that it's not going to be easygoing every day and I now understand that and I try not to get. Myself bent out of shape if I'm having a day where, you know, my, my feelings and emotions are overwhelming.

Steve: 30:45

Yeah. And I know that, early in sobriety or when you're on that line and sober curious can be some of the hardest times to get through. What would be one piece of advice you'd give to someone who's either sober, curious or newly sober?

Scott: 30:58

Yeah, it's, I think it's such a good question to ask. I would say, don't be afraid. Don't take the first drink or drug. Don't be afraid. Because we like. Go to 90 meetings in 90 days. So many people say that. Get phone numbers from people in these, in the meetings. Just make connections and tell us how you're feeling because we will, we care about you and we will be there for you. And that you are not alone. It is every single time I log on to a meeting on zoom and eventually when I go to live meetings, but my experience just going to the meeting and I see the faces of the people that I've gotten to know over these 5 and a half months, I feel better 100 percent of the time and that's what I would tell a newcomer is that. You don't have to be afraid.