Feeling the Feelings ft. Holland

In this episode of Gay A: The Queer Sober Hero Show, host Steve is joined by the amazing Holland, who shares his journey to recovery, approach to spirituality, and how sobriety has transformed his life. Holland, who celebrates a sobriety date of February 2, 2022, opens up about growing up in Hawaii and Alaska, their struggles with addiction, and finding their way back to recovery after a series of challenges. Holland also discusses the importance of service, humility, and staying connected to their queer and recovery communities.

Key Topics Discussed:

• Holland’s early years in Hawaii and Alaska and their experience with addiction starting at a young age.
• The challenges of balancing recovery and spirituality and how embracing ambiguity with their higher power has been a game-changer.
• How sobriety has allowed them to process big feelings and lean on tools like therapy, service, and community connection.
• The power of service in recovery, from giving rides to newcomers to being active in the service structure of AA.
• Navigating friendships, relationships, and dating as a queer person in recovery and the importance of setting boundaries and standards.
• Holland’s daily practices for maintaining sobriety, including meditation, gratitude, and embracing humility in their professional and personal life.
• A focus on progress over perfection and the mantra, “Let go, let God,” that keeps them grounded.

Memorable Quotes:

• “Being sober means I get to feel all the big feelings and then rely on tools to not do the crazy next steps.”
• “I never want to be too big to clean up chairs because that’s where I meet future sponsees.”
• “You don’t have to pay back taxes for the person you were. You deserve good things now.”

Resources Mentioned:

• Book: Every Feeling Is Big – A poetry book about heartbreak and relationships in recovery. [Available on Amazon.]

Stay Connected:

Follow us on Instagram @gAyApodcast for updates, behind-the-scenes content, and more.

Transcript

Steve: 0:00

Hello there. Super sober heroes. Welcome to gay a it's your host, Steve. And I'm here with 1, 336 days sober. And today I am here with the amazing and wonderful Holland. Welcome to the show. Hello. And for those who haven't had the pleasure to get to know you IRL yet, why don't you introduce yourself to everyone?

Holland: 0:23

Yeah. My name is Holland. I'm an alcoholic. I live in St. Paul, Minnesota. The beautiful part of the Twin Cities is what I say. It's like where, all the old hipsters go to retire. I have a sober date. It's February 2nd, 2022. And I'm super excited to be here. Excellent. And

Steve: 0:44

speaking of being super excited, what would you say has you most psyched about being sober today?

Holland: 0:51

Oh gosh, well, today during therapy, the thing that I was really excited about was, it sounds really crazy, but, that I can like, feel all my feelings, and then I have steps. To kind of help work through my feelings. Cause I think that's the cool thing about being sober and having a little bit of time under my belt is like being sober. It doesn't mean I have to avoid my feelings. I drink to avoid my feelings. Being sober means I get to feel all the big feelings that I want to feel and then rely on the fact that like, I have tools like make sure I don't do the crazy next steps. Cause I do a lot of work just to live next door to crazy.

Steve: 1:34

No. I hear you on that. Like, it's wild. Like, I thought, like, after, like, the urge and desire to drink stopped, I was like, okay, cool, I don't have to work the steps as actively every single day all the time now. And I'm like, just cause, like, not working them doesn't make, like, the drinking wanna happen. Like, it doesn't mean that I'm normal and stable and not very unwell if I'm not actively working steps. Like, I get unhinged very quickly without meetings and step work and sponsors and being

Holland: 1:58

connected. Yeah. No, that's my, I was talking to my therapist about it and I wanted to ice pick my neighbor's tires just because I don't like the way they park. And she was like, Hmm, what are the consequences of that? And I was like, who cares what the consequences are? And she was like, well, what are the consequences for your boyfriend who lives with you? And I went, Oh, well, we're going to put like that spin on it. I get it. So I guess like being sober means I. think of others now. I

Steve: 2:30

hear you

Holland: 2:31

on

Steve: 2:31

that. Yeah. Well, what is, would you say is also your favorite part of being a member of the queer community today?

Holland: 2:39

Right now I think the, my favorite part about being part of the queer community is like, especially with where I work, I do hair for a living. Knowing that with everything going on in the world right now, that I'm a place where someone can go for like 30 minutes for a haircut and feel safe. You know, that for the next 30 minutes, you can vibe, be yourself with me, and whatever's going on around us, like, that is your space to feel safe, and the fact that I can provide that, and like, stand in solidarity with a lot of that, makes me really grateful to be a part of that. No one has to feel they have to go through any of this alone, and to be a place for someone to land when, like, everything seems unsure is nice. It's nice because we're not just doing recovery alone, but we don't have to do any aspects of our life alone.

Steve: 3:33

Definitely. All of life is scarier when we are not connected. But yeah, the more we're connected, the better. So and I'm actually going to be releasing this like relatively soon for when we're talking. So this is going to be very timely still when it comes out on Thursday, because it's been a rough couple days and weeks. So with all of that, why don't you share a little bit more about how you got here to where you are today.

Holland: 3:56

Yeah, so I grew up in Hawaii and Alaska, so I am not a typical, what we call, like, continental United States American and I lived in Hawaii until I was seven, and then I moved to Alaska when I was In the second grade and it was an experience for sure and my problem in life has never been that I never felt like I fit in. My problem was I never gave a shit about fitting in. So like I remember when I moved from Hawaii to Alaska. There were all these kids that were like, he's weird, he's wearing shorts. And it's like you're pasty white. Why would I care about anything you say? And that was like kind of the switch where I was like, Oh God, like I, all these people like want someone and like, I'm cool just like be bopping through life by myself. And I started drinking when I was like in fourth grade, and then that quickly led to one time I went to this guy's house when I was like a fifth grader to buy weed, and he was like, I don't have that, but I got this stuff. So I was introduced to alcohol in its many forms pretty quickly. And from the time I was like 10 to 17, I don't think I really ever drew a sober breath. But that wasn't weird where I was from. I like want to emphasize that, like, when I talked to other people from Alaska who've gotten sober, they're like, yeah, like I get it because everyone was doing it. So while drinking and doing drugs was really normalized for me I think the way I did it was. Insane. So, you hear, some, like, people who experience drug use, such as, like, amphetamines, being like, Ah, I just really love doing it, and, having sex with a bunch of people, I really like doing it and stealing boats from the Coast Guard. That was, what I thought was a good time. And then when I was 17, I used to love getting in trouble with the law. That was my vibe. If it was, like, Suggested not to do it. I was all for it. When I was 17, I was arrested and this time it was a bad one. Like we arrested for a lot of not great stuff and my lawyer at the time was like, Hey, like the last couple of arrests you've had have been drug and alcohol related. How do you feel about Going to treatment. I was like, No, I'm like down for going to prison because when I was younger, I watched the show called Oz. If anyone who's seen Oz knows what I'm talking about. So I thought that prison was going to be like, I go there and find a hot boyfriend. Like maybe I get to do some fun drugs. Like I get in like this really great shape. If there was drugs and hot guys there. I didn't know where to find them. All my prison experience was, was I can tell you a lot about the 2010 NBA playoffs and I know how to play spades and I read a bunch of James Patterson books. So after a couple months of doing that, I decided to like take them up on this treatment offer. And I went down to Seattle, Washington, went to treatment, was introduced to Alcoholics Anonymous through that. I was sober for about five years when I was 22, it was when I went back out. I don't really believe in this whole, like, higher power thing, because if God was real, this bad thing in sobriety wouldn't have happened to me. So then, like, I can sum up the next six years of my sober life as, like, I was in recovery, but, like, I couldn't put time together, because I was trying to do Alcoholics not without spirituality. And what that looked like was I was just like a shell of a person inside the rooms of recovery. So like I knew I couldn't live without recovery, but I hated going to it. And then finally, like in February of 2022, I got Covid, but I was living in Iowa, so Covid wasn't real. And I went to a Walgreens to buy Theraflu. And the Walgreens employee was like, Hey, you know, you could probably buy a bottle of brunettes for cheaper, which is true. Cause I was buying like six bottles of Theraflu. And the next thing I knew I was drunk again. And what was different about this one was it was the first time that like the elusive effects for alcohol for me when I drank again after my first stint of sobriety was it made time stop and like I finally understood that like feeling of being able to catch my breath and like my mind stopped and time just stood still for like a couple days. And this time when I drank, I didn't experience that. It just, I was just drunk and miserable, which is a combination I had never experienced before. And that was not the vibe by any stretch of the imagination. So I decided to go out to Minnesota, went to a treatment center up here, and what my mindset was getting sober this time was having a new experience. Like, I'd been in AA at that point, like, 12 years, and I knew that if I was going to do it, I was gonna have to have a new experience with Alcoholics Anonymous, and I was gonna have a new, have to have a new experience with God, and I was gonna have to, like, quit this attitude of knowing everything. Because if I knew everything, then why was I one of those bozos who was in treatment again? That was what started my journey of getting sober this time, and it's been great.

Steve: 9:40

I've loved that. I followed you on social media for way longer before we connected, so I see how you're living fabulously and fiercely sober out loud, and I love that. What has it been like that's made it different this time around in terms of what you do on a day to day practice?

Holland: 9:57

So, the biggest thing that I do different is I really lean into this idea of spirituality, but I don't do it in a way where, I know what God is supposed to be. And I know that sounds really cheesy, but like, I leave that whole, what is supposed to happen and like what God is supposed to be and what everything's supposed to look like really ambiguous. And what I feel like has happened because of that is I'm able to kind of go with the flow that like recovery asks us to do. But I never could get into that because I was always so regimented and planned. And now I just like lean into that, like, as long as I'm like, useful to other people today, then like, whatever's supposed to happen is supposed to happen. And so far, I haven't been displeased with anything that's happened. So I haven't really questioned that.

Steve: 10:57

Yeah, I love that and you are always it sounds like doing some bit of service as well What other types of tips or tricks do you give people to help keep them sober, you know, if they're struggling

Holland: 11:11

so I would say like Getting involved, like, with the service structure of recovery, whatever program you're working, there's a whole service structure that exists to maintain that these rooms still exist. And that was, like, the biggest thing for me, was getting involved to, like, make sure that the door was always open for someone who needed it. And what that looked like was, like, in the beginning, I gave a lot of rides to people who would fly in to go to the treatment center I went to. I'd pick them up from the airport, and then that turned into me getting involved with, like, our district, and then leading up into, like, me getting involved with ARIA. I do a lot with, like, the young person scene here, and I just say yes to making sure that, like, The rooms can stay alive in whatever way that needs to be. And I don't ever go into the mindset of like, just because like I have fancy positions now in my service life, if I'm at a meeting and I'm asked to like clean up chairs, I never say no, because I don't want to ever be too big to clean up chairs because like. Nine times out of ten, that's when I meet my future sponsies. Cause we like, are talking while we're cleaning up chairs. And I think that just like, being available. Being available to be of use.

Steve: 12:34

Yeah, I definitely love that, and I love, yeah, you're never too big for any service. I'm like, yeah, doing chairs, that's the easy stuff. I'll do that over the big stuff. For real. I'll do that over planning and programming and doing all this any day of the week. So give me chairs sometimes, yeah. And with the great thing about being part of a community and connecting with more people is that we build and strengthen these deeper relationships. How have your friendships changed in your recovery?

Holland: 13:01

So I would say like in the beginning, like I think a lot about this time when I lived in Iowa. I hated my time living in Iowa. The way they did AA there wasn't wrong. It was just different. And it was all about like status. You know, and like, here's the thing. I was cool in fucking high school. So, like, I don't need to be cool in Alcoholics Anonymous. Like, if I wanted to be popular, again, like, I would just tell stories from, like, when I was popular. But that was not the vibe there. And what my friendships consisted of was, like, the status thing. Like, who's going to the most meetings? Who is the biggest service position? Who is meeting with their sponsor the most? And that just felt really disingenuine. So, what my friendships look like today is, like, I just surround myself with people that I can authentically be myself around all the time, and, like, they have a space to be authentically themselves, because, like, nine times out of ten, those people who are, like, 9, 10, 11 years sober. Those are like my closest friends in recovery and they're still crazy. You know, we never get like unwound. And that's like, we just have these friendships where we can be authentic about what we're going through, as opposed to putting up that front of like. Well, I got the wife and I got the kids and everything's perfect. Like I don't surround myself with those people. I don't throw myself with the people that wake up every morning and levitate to the bathroom to take a piss. I surround myself with the people who are like, I woke up today and it felt like someone flipped a switch and I'm insane and I'm like, I get that feeling because they, we give each other the space.

Steve: 14:47

Yeah, I was gonna say if I had boring friends, like if I had friends that were not crazy, it'd be so boring. I don't know whether I'd be friends with them. So no, I love my batshit crazy friends.

Holland: 14:56

Yeah, I have a friend from Wisconsin. Check out her book. One time she is my queen of heartbreak who like dates all the bad guys in AA who turn out to be men in AA. And one time she, I mean, she writes poetry to deal with it. So we were like, turn this into a poetry book. So she wrote a book called every feeling is big about all the men in AA. Who have broken our heart and it's divine.

Steve: 15:28

It's so good. That sounds awesome. I'll make sure I link over to that in the show notes for people to watch. Amazon. Every feeling

Holland: 15:36

is big. It's great.

Steve: 15:38

Yeah. Oh, I mean, speaking of dating, what has dating for you been like in recovery and sobriety?

Holland: 15:44

Oh, gosh. So when I like, thank God when I first got sober, like when I was young, because I was 17 when I got sober the first time, and I moved to, from Alaska to Seattle, and I knew that I was like, Attractive, but then being like new and then in recovery being young and also attractive. It was like when Thanos put in that last infinity stone and he was like, I'm infinite. That was me. I got it. I was like, yo, man, buddy. And Thankfully, I had a sponsor at the time that was like, actually, like, we're going to teach you how to date. Like you're allowed to be 17, 18, 19 dating, but like, I'm not going to let you suddenly become like the new ho of the rooms. And that has been the thing that I've carried. And throughout my recovery was like, I am a firm believer of like. I'm not one of those people that are like, Hey, you can't date someone in Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous if you're in it. I like having a partner who's an Alcoholics Anonymous because it's such a huge part of my life that doing something with someone who shares the same joy for it that I have, I find it really like dumb, but I find it like really spiritual and romantic that like we work on these service projects together and we get to like, magic, just doing what we're supposed to be doing. And most of my dating life in recovery is not compromising what I think I want because I think this is what I deserve. You know, I see so many people, especially gay people, in recovery who are like, yeah, he's not the greatest, but like, neither am I. And I'm like, that's not how this works. Like, you have, like, don't sell yourself short because, like, you think you have to pay, like, back taxes on what a terrible person you were in the past. Like, You're a great person now. Why would you, like, sell yourself short? The other thing I find really helpful for anyone who's dating on recovery, a really thorough sex inventory that creates a very thorough sex ideal. So I have a sex ideal that, like, when I started dating, if people didn't match it, I wasn't gonna try to force these puzzle pieces to fit. Like if I had something that like I knew wasn't going to work for me and they'd be like, Ooh, but I'm really into this. It's like, well, then we're just not going, I'm not going to waste a bunch of time trying to make this fit because and that's okay that it doesn't.

Steve: 18:27

Yeah, I agree. I think that that's been definitely hard to for like me to learn and talk about and people with people in recovery is like, it's okay if we disagree, like both. With romantic things, in the bedroom things, as well as in relationships, day to day stuff, it's like, I can meet people that I don't vibe with, and that doesn't mean that they're bad people, or that I'm bad people, but it's just that we just don't vibe together, and I feel like that's something that you can, like, I learned almost, like, in the bedroom at first, and I was able to kind of take it out of the bedroom, and be like, wow, this applies to real people in relationships, too. Yeah, yeah. And speaking of that, how would you say you're able to apply your program into your daily life, like outside of recovery, but do you ever think of like, I recently had like the eye opening experience at like a work experience for a week where someone was like talking about how to run their business and I was like, Oh, it's like one day at a time. I think I hear that sometimes some other places of like kind of the way that I like building my business, like you take it one day at a time. Like, do you have moments like that where you apply things from the program into outside program things? Yeah. Yeah.

Holland: 19:32

Yeah, I mean, I think one of the best things that like the program I'm working a lot right now and like six and seven and my personal life. So the humility steps and two parts of that that I really appreciate is like, I run my own business by doing hair, you know, and I've had to learn. I used to get really in this mindset that like my time was the most important. Like my time is my money. Like you're like working off my time. And learning that like the humility of like, well, my time isn't the most important. So like when people have to like reschedule or they're running late, I don't get frustrated. And I like recognize that like, The humility of, like, knowing that I'm not, just because I'm providing a service does not mean I'm the most important person in this, like, business transaction, because realistically, like, I wouldn't have a business if you didn't pay me. And the other thing too is, like, when things are going on around me with, like, my coworkers, my boyfriend, you know, people like that how personal am I going to take the human experience? Like, how am I, like, they could be upset about something, and it's my choice. If I want to take it personally, or if I, like, have the humility to be able to recognize that, like, this isn't about me. You know, when my sponsors are upset, and they're, like, biting my head off, like, it's not because they hate me as a sponsor. It's because they have their own stuff going on. So it's, like, up to me if I want to, like, think that I'm so important that this whole attitude that they have is directed towards me because of me, or if it's just, like, It's just their attitude right now. And I think that's been really, really helpful is that idea of like, I'm not that important that people are taking out, like everything that's going wrong is my fault.

Steve: 21:24

Yeah, no, that definitely makes sense. And as you're talking about that, I'm like, that's why my sponsor has me living in six and seven for a while right now, as I'm going through some certain things. He's like, why don't you stay there for a little bit before we move on? So like, good idea. Excellent. And out of all your time in the rooms, we hear all these different phrases. Do you have a favorite mantra or quote that you live by or love?

Holland: 21:50

Not, like, not really. I, like, they still, all those, like, cheesy sayings, really, sometimes, just, like, sometimes someone will say them to me, and you can tell it's the first time they've ever heard it, and they think it's, like, you know, Gandhi speaking, and they say it to me, I'm like, I just want to smack the dog shit out of you for telling me that. But the one that, like, realistically, that I, like, stay under my breath a lot is like, let go, let God.

Steve: 22:21

Mm hmm.

Holland: 22:21

Like, if I have one that is just, like, constantly, like, in my head, it's like, when because I get irritated real easy. Like, the wind decides to blow west instead of east, and I'm like, yo, that shit's pissing me off. And it's like, just let go, let God. And that helps. It, like, brings me back into the reality of, like, This has nothing to do with me. Like, why am I so upset and taking this thing that has literally no control over, like, why am I taking it so personally? Yeah,

Steve: 22:52

it's a, it's a conscious effort that I understand that sometimes that's not something like people have to work towards, but I get that same way where something happens and I'm just like, my gut reaction is chaos and then I have to kind of criss correct. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much for your time. I am sure this is the first of many episodes having you on as a guest. So welcome to the GA family. Thank you so much for having me. It was such a treat. Yes. And thank you listeners for tuning into another episode. Make sure you're following us wherever you listen, as well as on the socials at GA podcast. And until next time, stay sober.